measuring engines
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b
measuring engines
I was wondering if there was a way to measure an engine to find outs its displacement. I have no clue as to what size it it. Can I measure the pistons? and how can I transpose that to a size. one last thing with vw parts, I have some parts numbers with 113 and some with 211 will they intermix? I have a lots of parts with no home and looking to see what modes they go with any help would be great.
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MASSIVE TYPE IV
- Posts: 20132
- Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 12:01 am
If you pop off a head you can easily measure the bore and stroke of the engine.... Thats tehe asiest way to tell for sure.
113 and 211 parts can be the same, but only if those 211 parts were on a TI style engine that was outfitted for a bus originally.
These parts do not sound like TIV parts, our prefixes are normally 021, 022,029 or 039...
113 and 211 parts can be the same, but only if those 211 parts were on a TI style engine that was outfitted for a bus originally.
These parts do not sound like TIV parts, our prefixes are normally 021, 022,029 or 039...
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tuna
- Posts: 2531
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 12:01 am
If you suspect the engine is never been rebuilt, you can find out what size it was originally and maybe what car it came from. Look for the crankcase #, it's located in one of two spots, as illustrated in this pic.
This number will almost always start with a one or two letter code, followed by six or seven digit number. Once you have the crankcase letter code, look it up at this page to find out the size and maybe the type of car it was installed into.
If you do remove the heads(actually just one head is needed), measure the diameter of the piston. This will give you the bore. To measure the stroke, rotate the engine so that one of the pistons is at the top of it's travel. Measure the distance from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston. Then rotate the engine again so that the piston is on the bottom of it's travel. Do the same measure, top of cylinder to the top of the piston. Subtract the top number from the bottom number and you'll have the stroke.
Then, for four cylinder engines, enter these two numbers into this equation (and you never thought you'd use algebra again):
bore x bore x stroke x 3.141592 / 1000
That will give you the displacement in cc's. A 1.7=1679cc, 1.8=1793cc, and 2.0=1971cc
As for the part numbers, the 113 or 211 part has no bearing if the parts are interchangible. The only thing they tell you is where the part was first installed. A 111 or 113 was on a Bug, a 211 on a Bus, and a 311 on a Type 3 obviously. Jake's list of numbers is correct, but to show an example, the oil pressure light switch for any air cooled VW is 021-919-081B, meaning the switch from a Type 4 has superceded the one originally installed on the Beetle.
If you need to know about interchangibility, consult a good VW shop. They'll be able to look it up in one of their "hard parts" catalogs from their suppliers.
Tuna
This number will almost always start with a one or two letter code, followed by six or seven digit number. Once you have the crankcase letter code, look it up at this page to find out the size and maybe the type of car it was installed into.
If you do remove the heads(actually just one head is needed), measure the diameter of the piston. This will give you the bore. To measure the stroke, rotate the engine so that one of the pistons is at the top of it's travel. Measure the distance from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston. Then rotate the engine again so that the piston is on the bottom of it's travel. Do the same measure, top of cylinder to the top of the piston. Subtract the top number from the bottom number and you'll have the stroke.
Then, for four cylinder engines, enter these two numbers into this equation (and you never thought you'd use algebra again):
bore x bore x stroke x 3.141592 / 1000
That will give you the displacement in cc's. A 1.7=1679cc, 1.8=1793cc, and 2.0=1971cc
As for the part numbers, the 113 or 211 part has no bearing if the parts are interchangible. The only thing they tell you is where the part was first installed. A 111 or 113 was on a Bug, a 211 on a Bus, and a 311 on a Type 3 obviously. Jake's list of numbers is correct, but to show an example, the oil pressure light switch for any air cooled VW is 021-919-081B, meaning the switch from a Type 4 has superceded the one originally installed on the Beetle.
If you need to know about interchangibility, consult a good VW shop. They'll be able to look it up in one of their "hard parts" catalogs from their suppliers.
Tuna
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Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=31273
The beercan method is only as accurate as the assumption made about the compression ratio. As an example, for 7.5:1 compression the unswept volume of a stock 1585cc engine would need to be ~61cc (396.16 ÷ 6.5), so the total volume at BDC would be ~457cc. There's approximately 29.57cc per fluid ounce, so that's about 15½ ounces - just less than a pounder
A 1641cc engine would need to have a C.R. of over 9.6:1 before the numbers would work out the same, so this is a reasonably good way to estimate bore size assuming the stroke is stock.
The beercan method is only as accurate as the assumption made about the compression ratio. As an example, for 7.5:1 compression the unswept volume of a stock 1585cc engine would need to be ~61cc (396.16 ÷ 6.5), so the total volume at BDC would be ~457cc. There's approximately 29.57cc per fluid ounce, so that's about 15½ ounces - just less than a pounder
A 1641cc engine would need to have a C.R. of over 9.6:1 before the numbers would work out the same, so this is a reasonably good way to estimate bore size assuming the stroke is stock.
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ohcaptaindj
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:23 pm
VW / Porsche engine codes
I'm posting this information since it was taking me forever to decipher the engine code on my '64.
I didn't find this information until I did a search on "Porsche Engine Codes".
Engine Letter Codes
http://type2.com/bartnik/enginecodes.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This should help you decipher what sort of engine you have in your Volkswagen. The "Code" column shows the first character or two of the engine code, stamped on the case. I supplied data for Porsche 914 cases as well as VW 411/412 cases just in case your Bus has one of those engines in it (since they are easily interchangeable).
Volkswagen Type 1
Code: Year: Engine:
4 1960 1200
5 1961 1200
6 1962 1200
7 1963 1200
8 1964 1200
9 1965 1200
FO 1966 1300
HO/TO 1967 1500
H5 1968-1969 1500
B6 1970 1600 (dual relief, single-port)
AE 1971-1972 1600 (dual-port)
AH 1973-1974 1600 (8mm head studs w/ case savers)
AJ 1975-1979 1600 (fuel-injected)
Volkswagen Type 2
Code: Year: Engine:
Numerals 1961-1963 1200 (see Type 1 listings)
O 1964 1500 (no cam bearings)
H 1965 1500
HO 1966-1967 1500 (no crossmember holes)
B5 1968-1969 1600 (single relief)
AE 1971 1600 (with crossmember holes)
CB 1972-1973 1700 (dual carb, manual trans)
CD 1973 1700 (dual carb, auto trans)
AW 1973-1974 1800 (dual carb)
AW 1975 1800 (fuel-injected)
ED 1975 2000
GD 1976-1979 2000 ('79 has Vanagon heads)
GE 1979 2000 (California only, Vanagon heads)
CV 1980-1983 2000 (Vanagon -- unique case and heads)
Volkswagen Type 3
Code: Year: Engine:
O 1963-1965 1500 (no cam bearings)
TO 1966-1967 1500
UO 1968-1969 1600 (fuel-injected)
UO 1970 1600 (dual-relief)
U5 1971-1973 1600 (7.7:1 compression)
X 1972 1600 (7.3:1 compression)
Volkswagen Type 4
Code: Year: Engine:
W 1971 1700
EA 1972-1974 1700
EB 1973 1700 (California only)
EC 1974 1700
Porsche 914
Code: Year: Engine:
W 1970-1971 1700 (8.2:1 compression, D-Jetronic)
EA 1972-1973 1700
EB 1973 1700 (7.3:1 compression)
EC 1974 1800 (CA-only, 7.3:1 comp, L-Jetronic)
AN 1800 (8.6:1 comp, D-Jetronic)
GA 1973-1974 2000 (7.6:1 comp, 3 intake studs)
GB 2000 (8.0:1 comp)
VO 1700 (Euro-only, magnesium)
1800 (Euro-only, magnesium)
2000 (Euro-only, magnesium)
Replacement Cases
(Never supplied in new cars -- only sold over the counter. All are
dual-relief with 10mm oil passages).
Code: Year: Engine:
F1 1300/1600
F2 1300/1600
DO 40-hp part if last digit is "X"
D1 Sometimes a 40-hp part
AB 1966-1979 1600
AD 1600
AK 1967-1974 1500/1600
AM 1600
AS Sometimes listed as Super Beetle orig. case
for '73-on.
I didn't find this information until I did a search on "Porsche Engine Codes".
Engine Letter Codes
http://type2.com/bartnik/enginecodes.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This should help you decipher what sort of engine you have in your Volkswagen. The "Code" column shows the first character or two of the engine code, stamped on the case. I supplied data for Porsche 914 cases as well as VW 411/412 cases just in case your Bus has one of those engines in it (since they are easily interchangeable).
Volkswagen Type 1
Code: Year: Engine:
4 1960 1200
5 1961 1200
6 1962 1200
7 1963 1200
8 1964 1200
9 1965 1200
FO 1966 1300
HO/TO 1967 1500
H5 1968-1969 1500
B6 1970 1600 (dual relief, single-port)
AE 1971-1972 1600 (dual-port)
AH 1973-1974 1600 (8mm head studs w/ case savers)
AJ 1975-1979 1600 (fuel-injected)
Volkswagen Type 2
Code: Year: Engine:
Numerals 1961-1963 1200 (see Type 1 listings)
O 1964 1500 (no cam bearings)
H 1965 1500
HO 1966-1967 1500 (no crossmember holes)
B5 1968-1969 1600 (single relief)
AE 1971 1600 (with crossmember holes)
CB 1972-1973 1700 (dual carb, manual trans)
CD 1973 1700 (dual carb, auto trans)
AW 1973-1974 1800 (dual carb)
AW 1975 1800 (fuel-injected)
ED 1975 2000
GD 1976-1979 2000 ('79 has Vanagon heads)
GE 1979 2000 (California only, Vanagon heads)
CV 1980-1983 2000 (Vanagon -- unique case and heads)
Volkswagen Type 3
Code: Year: Engine:
O 1963-1965 1500 (no cam bearings)
TO 1966-1967 1500
UO 1968-1969 1600 (fuel-injected)
UO 1970 1600 (dual-relief)
U5 1971-1973 1600 (7.7:1 compression)
X 1972 1600 (7.3:1 compression)
Volkswagen Type 4
Code: Year: Engine:
W 1971 1700
EA 1972-1974 1700
EB 1973 1700 (California only)
EC 1974 1700
Porsche 914
Code: Year: Engine:
W 1970-1971 1700 (8.2:1 compression, D-Jetronic)
EA 1972-1973 1700
EB 1973 1700 (7.3:1 compression)
EC 1974 1800 (CA-only, 7.3:1 comp, L-Jetronic)
AN 1800 (8.6:1 comp, D-Jetronic)
GA 1973-1974 2000 (7.6:1 comp, 3 intake studs)
GB 2000 (8.0:1 comp)
VO 1700 (Euro-only, magnesium)
1800 (Euro-only, magnesium)
2000 (Euro-only, magnesium)
Replacement Cases
(Never supplied in new cars -- only sold over the counter. All are
dual-relief with 10mm oil passages).
Code: Year: Engine:
F1 1300/1600
F2 1300/1600
DO 40-hp part if last digit is "X"
D1 Sometimes a 40-hp part
AB 1966-1979 1600
AD 1600
AK 1967-1974 1500/1600
AM 1600
AS Sometimes listed as Super Beetle orig. case
for '73-on.
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yilon
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:01 am
Tuna:tuna wrote: If you do remove the heads(actually just one head is needed), measure the diameter of the piston. This will give you the bore. To measure the stroke, rotate the engine so that one of the pistons is at the top of it's travel. Measure the distance from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston. Then rotate the engine again so that the piston is on the bottom of it's travel. Do the same measure, top of cylinder to the top of the piston. Subtract the top number from the bottom number and you'll have the stroke.
I hate to nitpick and I apologize. However, measuring the piston is going to give some slightly strange numbers in mm. What is needed here is to measure the very top of the cylinder bore. The cylinder bore measurement should yield the familiar mm figures discussed in this forum.