Aircooled wbx heads

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:59 am

Hi Joe,
Glad you're here again and that the forum has moved up. The wbx to aircooled conversion deserves more attention imo.

Have you ever come across the Limbach aircooled heads for wbx cases with the original stud spacing that is?
I just reread an 'old' german tuning book (from Theo Decker) and it mentioned the german Limbach castings. Since no mentioning of stud relocation was mentioned, I assume these castings are a straigth fit to the original stud spacing of the wbx. From the picture in the book it looks exactly like a stock type 1 head tho. In the engine mentioned they used only small valves with this head. Even stock sized, but fully ported I believe.
They also used special (Yamaha motorcycle?) 97mm Alu Nikasil cylinders with a 78,4 mm Limback crank.

If people don't know: Limbach is(was?) an aircraft engine manufacturer and also made 78,4 and 82mm forged cranks for the wbx. The 82mm Limback wbx crank is very rare, but are extremely good.

Just curious if you know of them or ever used them.
Greetings,
Walter

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:04 am

Hi Walter,

No, I have never seen them here in the U.S.A.

I have heard of their stuff... Sounds interesting.

I would like to check out that info, If you could post it, or E-mail me...

- Joe

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:31 am

Hi Joe,
Unfortunately that info comes from a book, so it would first have to be scanned or so (I don't have one...) to electronicly send it in any way.

Gerd Weiser from www.gwd-weiser.de has build some engines with them I believe. His engine also competed in the big engine test which was published in VW Speed of 10-2000. I remember it was the only engine that had spark plugs that needed a 16mm socket to remove them (an exact professional measurement of cc's was being performed in the test) and they didn't have one haha.

I'll see what I can do in the coming week(s).
BTW how is your german?

Walter

TIMBERWOLF · Post by **TIMBERWOLF** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:24 am

I heard about these heads on the now defunct TotalVW forum from Laurie Petit, a UK wasser guru, take a look at http://www.limflug.de/frameuk.htm
the home page has what looks uncannily like a wasser headed oxy (Woxy?), injected 130hp and aerospace reliability.......mmmmmmm

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:01 am

The heads on that picture are not the ones I mean. Those are watercooled heads, not aircooled.

I have seen that pic more than once tho. A certain shop owner used it also on his site I believe.

Walter

Richie · Post by **Richie** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:01 pm

Hello,

Nice thing about the Limbach "air"heads is that they are usually twin-plugs, as this is mandatory in aircraftengines.

Cheers,
Richard

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:30 pm

The 2400EB may be what you are talking about.

In either case a 97mm bore ain't happening with T1 stud spacing.

Cant certainly tell from the pic the stud spacing, but the water cooled head unit certainly uses wasser heads and its stud spacing to get 97mm bore, the as does the 2400EB, so we may have a winner...

IS that a modified wasser block, or did VW make a AC T1 block with a filter housing, or did these guys get the molds?

In any case, I want one... With a "slightly" different cam...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:36 pm

The big Question is Why?

If your going to run a radiator... Just build a wasserboxer.

Other than that, I would just run the Oxy Conversion.

- Joe

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:37 pm

That was me... forgot to log-in.

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:45 am

The 2400EB is air cooled, 97x82.

Look like T1 heads + Nickies, on wasser stud spacings.

IOW ready to roll Oxy parts, in all likelyhood, no stud relocation required.
(Of course being German *and* aircraft parts we are taking serious cash)

I was mainly pointing out that the wasser stud spacing on those AC heads was very likely with a 97mm bore... I don't think it's possible with the T1 spacing.

Take a look.

I'm curious about their Nickies, and the heads look stock T1, save for the dual (likely 10mm) plugs.

I'm wondering if it's a wasser block, or a modified late model Mexi T1 block---IIRC it may have aquired the Wasser oil filter setup.

I'm wondering if they weld up the water passages in the heads where the wasser block would be, or if they use another method.
(On the wasser head version)

Hell, I'm just curious in general anyway.

Actually Joe, Remember my app? With a Turbo, the water cooled heads and nickies would be a nice bonus, thinking a small radiator and smaller 959 "style" fan housing containing same, all nice and self contained.

Just looks like a "factory" Oxy, very, very neat.

Remember, aircraft motors are conservaively rated at continuous power...
Don't try running your ACVW at 130 HP levels for long...Unless you have a KILLER cooling system of some sort--like water cooled heads and Nickies.
(Thus the 130HP model having wasser heads)

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:43 am

Piledriver wrote:
I was mainly pointing out that the wasser stud spacing on those AC heads was very likely with a 97mm bore... I don't think it's possible with the T1 spacing.

I think I mentioned this before, but the 97mm is probably a nicasil Yamaha motorcycle p/c with modifications. I also think the wbx stud spacing is used then.
The german tuner Gerd Weiser uses those on some oxy boxers he made IIRC

Walter

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:52 am

I'd love to know what bike they are on so I can hunt down a set...

There is a Yamahs shop close to where I work, have bought some stuff there, but the mechanics wont know me... A case of beer might do wonders, tho.

I have been planning going all water cooled, but the concept of "cheap" nickies (unproven at this point) and wasser heads (or "other" water cooled) is possibly better than what I have planned, as the deck height range defined by the block really limits what you can do, with an adapter/spacer plate, that starts to get ugly.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:50 am

Piledriver wrote:I'd love to know what bike they are on so I can hunt down a set...

Me too

Walter

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:06 am

I've been thinking about it, the only bike they make that would have a suitable bore/stroke would be a big V twin, so that simplifies things.

Roadstar IIRC, it's a 1600 CC twin.

I will check today how much the jugs cost, they use a ceramic composite lining, similar to nikasil, but newer tech.

IIRC it's been used in racing circles for some time.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:31 am

Cool, let me/us know what you can find out!

This combined effort is nice.

Walter