How to: Bus in to bug transmission?

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How to: Bus in to bug transmission?

Postby Veepster » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:33 pm

don't know if this is the correct forum but......

I am looking for some definitive answers regarding axles/CV's/stubs for putting a type 2 transmission into an IRS bug...I have done tons of searching regarding which axles/CV's to use.

so what are the possible methods of doing this?

inboard type 2 CV's, stock type 1 axles outboard type 1 CV's.....I read some places that this will work and others say the axles are too long!

Thing axles and cv's....expensive! and why are they different?

any input would be great!.....I have used the Datsun z car shafts/ U Joints for the last years but now am switching to CV's and don't feel like doing it twice....

Peace..............BartG
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Postby turboblue » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:15 pm

Bart

Bug axles are usually too long because a bus box is slightly wider than a T1 box. The CV's usually bottom on the splines and break. A number of aftermarket vendor make a slightly shorter axle with longer splines to overcome ths problem. SAW makes a 15 5/8" axle for this conversion. If it is an off road car with the suspension up somewhat, I like Transforms 16" axle. Stock bug axles are around 16 1/4"
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Postby Marc » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:24 pm

What Gary said...
Bob Ingman over in the Thing forum just put an 091 into his Thing (everything would be the same as Bug/Ghia except that he already had the larger-flanged 181/924 stubaxles) - you might see what he's using for axles - as I recall he had it jacked up a fair amount. Bus CVs don't have the angularity that the Thing ones do (they can only go about 17-18° compared to ~22° for the Thing).
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=44645
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Postby Tom Notch » Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:37 pm

For stub axles you can use 944/924 ones out of the Porsche steel trailing arms, like 86(?) and older. They are usually around $80. The SAW axles work fine, been using them for years on another installation and now will be narrowing them to fit my "different" bus into bug. The 15 5/8" is what you want for stock trailing arms.

If you need more angularity than the T2 cvs, try to find some T4s. They are slightly fatter looking than a T2 and I "think" are what was used in a Thing. Nobody wants them so you should be able to get a deal, anyway worth a try.
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Postby Veepster » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:34 pm

Thanks Guys!!.....now I just have to find some 924 stubs!...hhhmmmm.


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Postby turboblue » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:58 pm

Tom

Do the 15 5/8" SAW pull the cages out of the CV's somewhat in your setup? Ever try the 16" ones? They seem to work a little better around here anyway.
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Postby Tom Notch » Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:17 pm

Turbo, I have trailing arms that are narrowed 26mm. Told ya mine was different. The axles are really an odd length now.
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Postby turboblue » Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:52 am

Oops.....Didn't catch the narrowing part in your post Tom.
16" still work good for us. Most of the guys around here raise their suspension so much, the 15 5/8" pull the cages a little too far out.
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Postby workingstiff » Sat Jul 12, 2003 10:02 am

Raising your suspension shouldn't come into the equation of length. If your axels ever get to the point of being LEVEL they will bind.
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Postby turboblue » Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:08 pm

workingstiff wrote:Raising your suspension shouldn't come into the equation of length. If your axels ever get to the point of being LEVEL they will bind.


What do you mean? By the suspension being raised, I meant the trailing arms and stubs are farther below the centerline of the CV output flange on the transmission, thus increasing the ground clearance. Sedan axles in a sedan torsion with a bus transmission will work, but as the suspension cycles up, that distance gets shorter, and the 16 1/4" axles will usually bottom on the spline and break a CV. The 16" axles are naturally a tad shorter to work with the slightly wider bus transmission and they also have a longer spline. This will usually eliminate the breakage problem when the suspension cycles. 15 5/8" axles sometimes pull the cages out of the CV slightly, so I prefer the 16" axles. This has been my experience anyway.
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Postby workingstiff » Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:07 am

turboblue wrote:
workingstiff wrote:Raising your suspension shouldn't come into the equation of length. If your axels ever get to the point of being LEVEL they will bind.


What do you mean? By the suspension being raised, I meant the trailing arms and stubs are farther below the centerline of the CV output flange on the transmission, thus increasing the ground clearance. Sedan axles in a sedan torsion with a bus transmission will work, but as the suspension cycles up, that distance gets shorter, and the 16 1/4" axles will usually bottom on the spline and break a CV. The 16" axles are naturally a tad shorter to work with the slightly wider bus transmission and they also have a longer spline. This will usually eliminate the breakage problem when the suspension cycles. 15 5/8" axles sometimes pull the cages out of the CV slightly, so I prefer the 16" axles. This has been my experience anyway.


I did my years ago so I'm not certain of which axel goes with what. What I'm refering to is , when you raise/tweak your torsion your cv centerline is higher than your stubs. But what happens when you cycle past the half way point? On the way down to bottoming out? The shortest distance in the fulcrum of the swing is everything on centerline. As long as you have some free play in your shaft :wink: at centerline. You'll be fine. I strapped my trailing arm to a jack just like when you raise your spring rate. To compress the suspension to check for play.
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Postby Superman » Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:38 am

Barrett Enterprises sells the complete kit (mounts & axles) for $250. BTW, they list the axles as 16 1/16" in length.

http://members.cox.net/troy383/091.html
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Postby Veepster » Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:40 pm

does anyone know the length of thing axles??....


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Postby turboblue » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:22 am

workingstiff

Yeah, I understand your point. In my experiences, the 15 5/8" axle is a tad short when the suspension is at full droop. The 16" work better for me because they are long enough at full droop as to not pull too much on the cages, but are short enough, with their longer than stock splines, to not bottom the CV when the suspension/stub axle is parallel with the drive flange on the transmission.

Superman
Is Barrett Enterprises still in business? Ron Barrett is my salesman for an OEM company in LA called IAP. He told me that he used to own Barrett Enterprises, but has been working for IAP for a few years. Maybe it reopened with new owners......
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Postby Travis S » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:16 am

I think the simplest way would be to get a kit, I have heard good things about the aircooled.net kit.

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