Starter dying?

Khai · Post by **Khai** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:46 pm

I've had this problem for a while now, but thought I had it "fixed". Every once in a while when I hop in the car and turn the key, nothing happens. There's a feeble "click", and then nothing. The lights and horn work, so I'm getting plenty of juice. I used to be able to fix it by juggling the wires that connect to the ignition switch, and about a year ago cut off the right wire clip and replaced it - effectively "fixing" the problem for nearly a year (it was getting loose). Recently however, the problem has come back and this time I need to bypass the ignition switch completely, shorting the L & R wires together to get the starter to turn over (I leave the bottom wire alone). Once I've bumped the starter a bit I can either start the car with the key, or by crossing the L&R wires with a screwdriver once the key is in the "on" position.

My brother-in-law told me that old starters sometimes get "stuck", and need to be jolted a bit in order to get them moving - either by shaking them or hitting them with a hammer. If this is indeed true, does that mean that my starter is on its last legs?

Brent67 · Post by **Brent67** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:25 pm

Don't get out the hammer yet

Sounds like a voltage loss somewhere in the system, and you proved that by crossing the wiring and getting the starter to work. This problem occurs in both 6 & 12 volt systems (happened to me

) Not intentionally meaning to "plug" anyone here but Gene Berg Ent. has a fix for this (it's installed on my '67). It basically entails installing a relay on the tranny housing next to the starter and essentially bypasses the voltage loss in the system and makes the starter solenoid close properly and engage. Since the install I have never had this problem re-occur. Good luck and put that hammer away, or use on your Brother maybe

Khai · Post by **Khai** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:33 pm

Thanks! I wasn't about to break out the hammer, but thought that it might be cool to have my car start every time, without the use of a screwdriver. (It's oddly kind of fun to "jack my own car", but I really should fix this...) For the record, it's 6v '66 Ghia. Unless anyone has any other (cheap) fixes, I guess I'll be placing an order with Gene Berg. Guess it's just one of those things with 37 year old wiring...

Brent67 · Post by **Brent67** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:51 pm

Been there, Done that! If you have the catalogue from Berg or access to one it basically tells you how to do it yourself. Or maybe it's time for a re-wire on the ghia, after that many years those connections can get a little iffy. But this fix gives you peace of mind, and maybe can even save you an embarassing moment or two

You know like when your out on a date and this little "problem" pops up and you have to pull your "gone in 60 seconds" routine and your right in the middle of it and John Law pulls up and..... you get the idea

Good luck

captCRUNCH · Post by **captCRUNCH** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:23 am

hey khai, if your bumping the starter from the drivers seat sounds like your wires could be ok...i mean the juice has to travel down the same set of wires when you jump it or use the key. could be your ignition switch or connection (i'm not saying that its not a voltage drop due to old wires). you also said that you feel a click...the click is probably your solinoid trying the spin the starter. your bro in law's hammer trick can come in handy when have a sticky solinoid. a few light blows on the solinoid will free it and allow you to start the car to get your butt home and change the starter. in any case it does sound like a ignition wire/connection issue.

Hoxviii · Post by **Hoxviii** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:07 pm

You can also do the bypass relay cheaper by going to your local FLAP and gtting a 6v starter solenoid for a 6v ford (has to be a ford). It tells you how to wire it up in the back of muir's "idiot" book.

Justin

Khai · Post by **Khai** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 4:11 pm

FLAP? Friendly Local Auto Parts (dealer)? I've not heard that term before...

Thanks for the info though - saving some $$ is always good as long as the quality doesn't suffer.

captCRUNCH · Post by **captCRUNCH** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:15 am

i've been told that the ford soilnoid trick is iffy cause the soilnoid draws quite a bit and your left with the same problem...wireing a relay might work a bit better. i know glenn has a colour diagram for wireing a realy in...and you can get them anywhere.

Khai · Post by **Khai** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:48 am

captCRUNCH wrote:wireing a relay might work a bit better. i know glenn has a colour diagram for wireing a realy in...and you can get them anywhere.

This is kind of a dumbass question, but exactly what is the difference between using a solenoid and a relay? (I don't even really know what they are, other than electrical doohickys that are sometimes used to power pop-up headlights...

)

Tarbal · Post by **Tarbal** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:59 am

Khai wrote:

but exactly what is the difference between using a solenoid and a relay? (I don't even really know what they are, other than electrical doohickys

Solenoids and relays are electrically very similar. They both use electro-magnets to move something. A solenoid is bigger and moves bigger things like the gear on a starter. A relay is generally smaller (although I have seem some pretty big relays) and is used to open and close electrical contacts (think of a remote control switch). For use with your starter system I would use a relay.

New to the ACVW scene but old to the electrical thing

Hoxviii · Post by **Hoxviii** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:34 pm

The ford solenoid is a big a$$ relay, it doesn't actually throw the bendix on the starter. a VW solenoid does throw the bendix, so I guess youcold just call the ford a "starter relay".

Justin

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