head stud pattern

Muffler Mike · Post by **Muffler Mike** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:32 pm

so what is one doing about dealing with head stud patterns. it is bigger then t1 and i saw the offset insterts on so and so's page. (cant rememer, might be Morten's page) or are we hoging out the holes in the heads and barrels?
just curious. is it the same pattern as a t4 just closer? something different all togher?

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Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:01 pm

Hi Mike,

I can re-locate the studs, it requires tooling to move the original holes, and eccentric inserts...

Type I heads, the Type IV have the wrong Barrel Spacing...

- Joe

Badbugtwo · Post by **Badbugtwo** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:04 pm

Mike,

With the offset inserts “they” are making the pattern the same as a type one. It makes the heads and cylinders a bolt on.

The stock water boxer pattern is exactly the same as the Scat and Autocraft 101.6mm bore pattern. Makes you wander were they got theirs from?
On my engine we actually offset it even further out to allow a larger, thicker cylinder and then got some raw 910 Autocraft heads and drilled our own pattern.

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Jeff Rogers
www.badbug.com

[This message has been edited by Badbugtwo (edited 01-24-2003).]

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:33 am

>The stock water boxer pattern is exactly the same as the Scat and Autocraft 101.6mm bore pattern.<

Any "street" styles of these heads available?

Thanks,

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe

Badbugtwo · Post by **Badbugtwo** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pillow:
>The stock water boxer pattern is exactly the same as the Scat and Autocraft 101.6mm bore pattern.<

Any "street" styles of these heads available?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish! It would be great to have a streetable type 1 2800cc engine. Maybe someone will make a head and cylinder of this size that will cool properly, someday? Although I question whether there is enough of a market for someone to warrant the work.

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Jeff Rogers
www.badbug.com

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 2:55 pm

Joe was talking in a earlier post saying he was checking with someone about buying some heads not drilled for head studs ie blank.

Badbugtwo · Post by **Badbugtwo** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PapaG:
Joe was talking in a earlier post saying he was checking with someone about buying some heads not drilled for head studs ie blank.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there are no heads on the market that have enough material in the combustion chamber area for a 4" bore and with proper cooling fins for the street, even if you move the studs. But it would be great if I am wrong.

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Jeff Rogers
www.badbug.com

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:45 pm

There are some available....

I have to buy sixty heads in one order....

It won't happen 'til this thing gets more popular.

- Joe

jasonb · Post by **jasonb** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:39 am

Maybe this is a stupid question but here goes.

Would it be possible to take a pair of wasser heads and machine the fins in? I've never looked at a pair and I know that there must be water passages around the area of the chambers but could it be done?

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:57 am

No...

- Joe

Badbugtwo · Post by **Badbugtwo** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:44 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by PapaG:
Joe was talking in a earlier post saying he was checking with someone about buying some heads not drilled for head studs ie blank.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is the post that you were refering to:
http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Fo ... 00005.html

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Type 5 Joe:
 There are some available....
- Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe,

In the post that the above link goes to, you were referring to the C.B. Performance street eliminators & comp eliminators. As I have never taken a close look at either of these heads, have you researched whether they truly have enough material in them for a 4” bore? Without having either one to actually look at, I was under the impression that they only had a combustion chamber as large as the 041 or 044 heads. One time while playing around with a junk 041 head, Rocky opened up one of the chambers to 96.7mm bore and it started to break through in a few spots.

If either one of the above C.B. heads truly does have enough material in them, someone could take a pair and heliarc weld some aluminum dowels in the stud holes and relocate them that way. It is a lot more work, but can be successfully done. At the beginning of the 2001 drag race season, I decided to upgrade my 2276cc to the 2789cc. As I didn’t quite have all of my ducks lined up to fully prep a new pair of race heads the decision was made to do this very modification to my Autocraft 910 heads. They worked great for the entire season and are now on a shelf in fine shape waiting to be used on my future backup engine. Also, I believe Rocky has done this to some other heads.

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Jeff Rogers
www.badbug.com

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:38 am

Hello,

I was negotiating a deal to have the heads delivered un-finished....

Possibly even having the core tooling, for the castings modified for a special "run".

These are heads made in the U.S.

The 044's are made in Brazil, by some Germans that left the country "just in time", after the war. (Wink Wink) :~)

These guys are butt heads (the Germans) about considering any short run modifications, they will not even discuss it...

The U.S. made heads (street / comp eliminators) are available in un-finished form, if purchased in quantity...

They are also a comepletely different casting W/ less fins, and more beef...

I feel that the project isn't worth doing unless you are going to extreme bore sizes...

Drag race applications could be acceptable for use W/ Iron liners...

Some people don't reccomend these for daily street use, others like myself, have had good results. I've dealt with these heads alot...

-My direction, would make use of aluminum cylinders W/ Nickaseal plating, to avoid thermal over-loading associated with big pistons & Cylinders...

Basically for street, drag, off-road, and applications that require the parts to live in endurance applications...

- Joe

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:32 am

Yeah Joe
I think you could be right... big bore "alloy nicki's" would soak a lot of heat out of the heads.. could be a real nice durable package!! $$$$ still...
Si

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:21 am

I talked to Jim Lutz last year (strictly german) and he welds up the studs holes on C/E heads, rebores to 4", w/ wasser pattern. I don't think can stay cool on the street though!

Darthbug · Post by **Darthbug** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:53 pm

C/E heads???