Leak-Free T1 Motor?

britegreenVWSB · Post by **britegreenVWSB** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:09 pm

Here's a question for all you experienced engine builders out there. I'm getting set to assemble my first stroker motor (a 2110). I have assembled a few T1 motors in my life, but I have yet to put one together that never leaks oil, from anywhere, despite how careful I am to try and build one that doesn't leak. It would be nice if this 2110 actually didn't leak. Is it possible to build one leak-free? If so, HOW???? Gracias!

TG

JC-ATL · Post by **JC-ATL** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:26 pm

Cleanliness of all sealing surfaces is key. Also, sealant in every possible place there is to put sealant.

Be creative about sealant - think of every possible scenario, and if you can think of a place where you haven't sealed before, put sealant there.

Also, you may want to change sealants. I'm using Curil-T on my latest build, but I've also used Permatex Aviation by the quart.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:47 pm

I use 13-15 different sealants on ONE engine.

No single sealant is good for every application! I hate oil leaks, if an ebngine leaks on my dyno, it don't leave my shop.

392HemiTCoupe · Post by **392HemiTCoupe** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:22 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV
You have told us a few different times that you use 13-15 different types of sealant on ONE engine. Since you keep telling us, how about telling us, what you use on what!

Thanks! Pat

Trikes are for Kids!

DesiJae · Post by **DesiJae** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:24 pm

This may not apply, but the only sealent I use is permatex on the case halves, I have even reused the Fel-pro valve cover gaskets 5 times and not one drop of oil in 25k. It's a stock motor though.

------------------
I'll make it work..

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:34 pm

Curil K2
Curil T
Gasgacinch
Permatex Hylomar
Permatex Aviation
3M weatherstrip adhesive
Permatex Teflon thread sealant (but not on threads)
Indian Head sealant
Permatex 3H
Loctite 518
Loctite 565
Loctite 574 Anerobic

Thats whats on my bench right now, as well as a roll of waxed dental floss..

I can't tell you where to use each of these sealants, but I will tell you that with some experimentation these in the right places will keep an engine BONE DRY.

Brent, my partner here built a 1700cc TIV engine in 1988, the engine ran so dry that the pushrod tubes rusted from the outside in and finally had to be changed, thats how dry the engine was for 14 years!

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

James2 · Post by **James2** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:45 pm

permatex and hondabond.

britegreenVWSB · Post by **britegreenVWSB** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:59 pm

Perhaps I should have been more specific about where I have had leaks: Head studs, around the deep sump where it mates to the case - and yes, it is bottoming on the case - and on the sump plate, and that's after using high-temp RTV sealant in these places. I've also had leaks around the flywheel end of the crank; either around the seal or the O-ring on the flywheel (not sure which), fuel pump insulator block, and distributor. I haven't had leaks around push rod tube seals, case halves, or oil cooler.

TG

britegreenVWSB · Post by **britegreenVWSB** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:35 pm

bump

If someone else could respond (perhaps again) to this I'd appreciate it. Reading the above posts I'm no better educated about what sealant to use where than I was before I started this. For instance, I don't think Permatex Aviation sealant would work very well on head studs, but on the other hand, what would? Thanks everybody!

TG

verbeekb · Post by **verbeekb** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:43 pm

Most of my oil leak problems were due to non-original VW pushrod tube seals and flywheel O-ring and insufficient crank case ventilation/breathing. I always use original VW gaskets. I even had problems with the Berg exhaust gaskets, replaced with genuine VW gaskets, no problems since.

I use the Loctite 574 on the case halves, Porsche uses it as well, on case halves and cylinderhead/camhousing assemblies. If you have a Porsche dealer around it's part number 000 043 010 00 I think.

On the cylinder bases I have used regular RTV sealant like the blue Loctite with success.

On the head studs/nuts/washers I have used Permatex 3H, the brown goop, I think with success, but I haven't checked lately.

Green Loctite studloc does wonders on threaded joints that need to be sealed, like full flow fittings that keep leaking. I am going to try it on head studs in the future, with a 'real' sealant on the washers.

I would love to hear everyone's opinions and products and applications for them.

Hope it helps,

Brian

[This message has been edited by verbeekb (edited 01-25-2003).]

verbeekb · Post by **verbeekb** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:50 pm

Maybe this helps, just cut 'n paste

-casehalves

-sumpplate(s)

-headstuds in case

-headstuds/nuts/washers in head

-case studs/nuts/washers

-rockerstand studs

-valve covers

-push rod tubes

-fuel pump

-gen/alt stand

-oilcooler/adapter

-oilpump to case

-oilpump to cover

-full flow fittings

-oil filler type 3 and 4 (+universal case)

-oil pressure switch

-gallery plugs

britegreenVWSB · Post by **britegreenVWSB** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 11:47 pm

Hey, verbeekb, what a great idea! Here's my experience with each of these places on a motor:

-casehalves - Permatex Aviation "Forms-A-Gasket"; no leaks

-sumpplate(s) - Permatex Ultra-Blue RTV sealant; it LEAKS

-headstuds in case - Loctite green "sleeve retainer"; no leaks

-headstuds/nuts/washers in head - Nothing now, have used Ultra-Blue here; with or without, it leaks a little

-case studs/nuts/washers - Green Loctite; no leaks

-rockerstand studs - More green Loctite; no leaks

-valve covers Permatex Aviation; only leaks when gaskets get old, then I replace

-push rod tubes - Nothing; no leaks

-fuel pump - With or without sealant, it LEAKS

-gen/alt stand - Just the factory gaskets; no leaks

-oilcooler/adapter - Factory seals only; no leaks

-oilpump to case - Factory gasket and thin coat of RTV; no leaks

-oilpump to cover - Thinnest gasket available, and a VERY thin coat of RTV; no leaks

-full flow fittings - More green Loctite; no leaks

-oil filler type 3 and 4 (+universal case) -N/A

-oil pressure switch - Green Loctite; no leaks

-gallery plugs - N/A

The more I look at this list, and by the way, it leaks around the distributor, the more I'm thinking that I have a slight crankcase pressure problem...

TG

392HemiTCoupe · Post by **392HemiTCoupe** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:24 pm

Thank You All, for your input!

I pertty much use Permatex 3H on everything.

Thanks! Pat

Trikes are for Kids!

bildewey · Post by **bildewey** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:19 pm

-casehalves = tribond

-sumpplate(s) = permatex w/factory gaskets

-headstuds in case = hitemp copper RTV

-headstuds/nuts/washers in head = permatex

-case studs/nuts/washers = permatex

-rockerstand studs = loctite

-valve covers = RTV on valve cover side of gasket

-push rod tubes = dry

-fuel pump = permatex or RTV w/gasket

-gen/alt stand = dry, permatex , or RTV depending on surface, w/ factory gaskets

-oilcooler/adapter = dry w/seals

-oilpump to case = permatex and gasket unless goober with screwdriver was there first, then RTV

-oilpump to cover = permatex w/ gasket

-full flow fittings = loctite purple anerobic or teflon paste

-oil filler type 3 and 4 (+universal case)permatex or RTV w/ gasket

-oil pressure switch = loctite purple or teflon paste

-gallery plugs = tribond

RT · Post by RT » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:53 am

What the hell...

Let's not forget that Loctite and Permatex are now the same company. The name "Permatex" was kept for their automotive line of sealants and the term does not denote any particular one sealant. There is duplication under both lines. The Loctite name is still used on the their mil-spec and industrial products.

-casehalves: Loctite 518 (new technology) or Permatex 3H Aviation Form-a-gasket (old tech)

-sumpplate(s): Hylomar 71285, now avail from Valco. Awesome stuff - a must have!
http://www.valco-cp.com/Hylomar.htm

-sumpnuts/washers: Permatex Ultra-grey, Loctite 5699, 3-bond silver or grey (Cummins p/n 3823494 - cause I like the small tapered metal nozzle). All these, essentially the same product, readily available, and are much more oil-resistant than other RTV's.

-headstuds in case: Blue loctite 242 (w/ case-savers, which are essentially inserts with enclosed bottoms). You only need this as a convenience to keep the studs in place.

-headstuds/nuts/washers in head: Ultra-grey/5699/3-bond silver. Small bead under washer only.

-case studs/nuts/washers: Ultra-grey/5699/3-bond silver. Small bead under washer only.

-rockerstand studs: 242

-valve covers: 3H, gasket to cover only. Let cure overnight before starting engine.

-push rod tubes: good quality seals only.

-fuel pump: hylomar

-gen/alt stand: hylomar

-oilcooler/adapter: good quality seals only

-oilpump to case: hylomar

-oilpump to cover: hylomar - thin coat. Do not use RTV which, unlike Hylomar, will squeeze into (and plug) the return groove.

-full flow fittings: Loctite 567PST high-temp thread sealant (green 292/sleeve retainer is overkill, but thank you for sharing Gene).

-oil filler type 3 and 4 (+universal case): hylomar

-oil pressure switch: Loctite 567PST high-temp thread sealant.

-gallery plugs: Loctite 567PST high-temp thread sealant and lock per B. Hoovers detailed instructions.

-pulley sand seal holder to case: 3H. It seals, doesn't harden, and still allows easy removal to change the seal.

-cam plug (metal): Permatex high-temp form-a-gasket #1572. Awesome sh*t! Messy, stains fingers!

And lets not forget,

-jugs to case: Ultra-grey/5699/3-bond silver

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 01-28-2003).]