Type 4 or Rotary?

Slopel · Post by **Slopel** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:59 pm

Hey all, I', looking into upgrading the engine in my 65 swingaxle bug. I had previously been looking into a type 4 concersion but due to the cost of parts involved in the conversion I had begun to look elsewhere. I am now considering a rotary swap. Has anyone here had experience with both. I'm looking for around 120hp out of the engine, but reliable enough to drive 20 miles a day intown with problems. Thanks, -Brandon

Shadowbug · Post by **Shadowbug** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:49 pm

Type 4's aren't that terribly priced, I've seen rebuilt 1.8L sell on ebay for $400 if you did your cooling system yourself you could do it much cheeper than a rotary conversion. Dealing with the liquid cooling will be more expensive than converting a type 4. Don't plan to do a rotary conversion just because you think it'll be cheeper, only do it if its what you really want to do.

heres a pic of the type 4 I'm installing in my beetle. I've started creating patterns for stainless steel sealing tin

Drakmare · Post by **Drakmare** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:53 pm

I too like you was torn between the 2. Then I got sound clips of the rotary and totally drooled on myself. Hahaha. I cant wait to sit at a red light all innocent then rev my sweet sounding rotary next to a stang. Yummm

Jim Molloy · Post by **Jim Molloy** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:02 pm

Check thru some of the ealier posts about
rotaries.My conversion was $2500.

Good ? Bad ? Your decision on the price.

Lots of info in some of the earlier posts.

------------------
72 Super Beatle Convertible w/12A Rotary engine. 7000 RPM in third gear is 100MPH. YAHOO !!

Drakmare · Post by **Drakmare** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:23 pm

Can you break down that amount?

Watching ebay and Rotary forums it seems I would be able to get a rotary anywhere from 300-600 bucks. Same holds true for a type 4 engine. What is it im missing? Cause it looks to me the cost would be the same either way u go.

Slopel · Post by **Slopel** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:15 pm

I kinda figured the costs to be about the same. ~500$ for a type 4 engine, bigger carbs, exhaust and tin conversion, maybe a cam and head work and your right up at 2500$-2750$ to make roughly 110-130hp (from what i have heard). One of the factors I have to consider is the stock swingaxle tranny I will have bolted to this engine, with the more low end torque from the type 4 I'd most definately be loooking at a new tranny to handle it. Another 500$ on the type 4 conversion.
With the rotary id be out about the same for an engine and all the goodies to get it going, plus its relatively low bottom end torque makes it more "tranny friendly".What I really want to consider is the driveability and reliability of the two. A properly cooled rotary seems like it could handle in town and long highway drives much better than a "frankenstien" cooling set-up for a type 4 (assuming you use the Joe Cali method). I am not trying to bash onw side or the other, Im just looking for your guys' opinions, guys who have been here and done this. Thanks -Brandon

Drakmare · Post by **Drakmare** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:08 pm

I think the rotary would be more driver friendly since it has so few moving parts that can potentially break and need adjusting all the time.

Drakmare · Post by **Drakmare** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:23 am

Well 2700 bucks just to make a type 4 110-130 HP? I had no idea it was like that. If im not mistaken the Stock Rotary has 130+ HP?? If that were the case then u can buy a stock rotary for say 400-600 bucks and already have more horsepower then a suped up type 4? Another reason im going for the rotary is like you said the low end torq isnt extreme. Its about that of a stock 1600cc bug engine. Which I would guess makes it ideal for a conversion especially if you dont wanna buy new tranny right away.

Shadowbug · Post by **Shadowbug** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:44 am

don't forget $400 for the adaptor and who knows how much for tha rad and cooling setup.

I'd love to do a rotary conversion, but not because it's cheeper power, expect to pay the same $/hp, no mater which direction you decide to go

danielmcaulay · Post by **danielmcaulay** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:49 pm

You could get 130hp by turboing if youve got $2500 to spend on a type one engine.

Paul_S · Post by **Paul_S** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:54 pm

Type IV's are quite heavy.
I saw a figure off about 311 pounds for a Type IV which makes it about 90 pounds heavier than a Type I!
The rotary is a better option in my opinion especially when it comes to reliablity and weight.

Also high performance Type I and IV air-cooled engines do not last like water cooled engines.
The rotary will not work quite as long as a reciprocating water cooled engine because the apex seals wear away more quickly than piston rings but you should get at least 100K+ miles out of the engine before an overhaul.

Drakmare · Post by **Drakmare** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:56 pm

Sure a turbo charged type 1 will get u over 130hp but how long do u think that thing is gonna last? Not over 100k miles thats 4 sure. Last I checked this was CONVERSION PERVERSION wheres the PERVERSION in putting a turbo on a stock type 1?

I really think u get more HP per dollar for a rotary, I dont know for a fact but the numbers just dont add up for me. I see everyone say its about 2500 bucks to do a rotary conversion. I can get 50-60k mile rotary for 600 or less. 400 for adapter plate. So unless the radiator and oil cooler add up to 1500 bucks I really dont see how it adds up. Maybe because these people take their cars into professional shops? These prices include labor? I really dont know.

miller · Post by **miller** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:21 pm

Why not get a cheap 4cyl like a ford 2.3L. Repair work and parts for the rotary and the type 4 engine are gonna be high but the 2.4 will probably be less matinence. remember rotaries need a good cooling setup and the same goes for the VW engine. I think a traditional 4 banger setup will be the most practical.

Slopel · Post by **Slopel** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:37 am

The reason i am thinking about a rotary is for the convenience and reliablity of the engine and hte fact that there are about 3 or 4 sitting in a salvage yard a couple miles away. I also like the fact that it will fit in the engine bay w/ the deckllid closed. I am also wondering how 2500$ got to be the final price. I think if i can do a lot of the work myself i can get out of it for 1000-1200$.
-Brandon

Jim Molloy · Post by **Jim Molloy** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:21 am

OK here's what I paid for the conversion:

Used Rotary 12A=====$550
Kennedy Kit=========$250
VW Clutch===========$110
6 Volt starter======$65
New tranny mounts===$25
Modified Carb,elec fuel
pump,regulator,new fuel
line================$450
Stainless exhaust,Magnaflow
muffler and cooling pipes,
all done at muffler shop=$600
Extra guages,VDO====$200
Welding for brakets=$50
RX-7 radiator=======free
Radiator hoses======$50
Misc connectors,bolts,
brackets,etc========$50

Guess its a little less than I thought.Also
I did things like new swing arm bushings,
shocks,lowering struts,strut bar,but not really considered part of the conversion.

Also I purchased the Kennedy kit for about
half price from a local guy who changed his
mind.

Used a stock VW pressure plate with one of
aircooled.net's special dual face clutch disk.No slip and using a stock tranny with
100K on it.

Questions ?

This is my work email so I may be a little
slow answering questions. So bear with me.

------------------
72 Super Beatle Convertible w/12A Rotary engine. 7000 RPM in third gear is 100MPH. YAHOO !!