Type 4 cooler conversion

bones10 · Post by **bones10** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 7:27 pm

Does anyone have any comparison data between the stock Type 1 doghouse cooler and the Type 4 conversion? How much "dimpling" was needed on the body?

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Sun Jul 07, 2002 11:20 pm

No mods are necessary to the body. I can just squeeze my fingers between the shroud and the tar board.

vdubsinjensen · Post by **vdubsinjensen** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:12 pm

I installed one on my buddie's 2110,and it seems to do pretty well down here in 90 degree Florida heat.I've also got one on my 1679 cc circle-track car.During an endoru race,It's run 75,1/4 mile laps continuiously at 4500-6300rpms,and never saw over 210F.I'll be running one on my 2332 when I get it together.Can't wait!

jet-set · Post by **jet-set** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:51 pm

I am running a t4 oil cooler in an early car, 61 beetle, and there was no need to dimple or hammer the firewall. It's a really close fit though. I built the motor with this cooler so I don't have any side by side comparisons. I am also in south florida where it is really hot and my car runs cool without any problems.

Hey Vdubsinjenson when are you guys running at the circle track again? I would like to get up there sometime and check things out.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:17 pm

I got in a big battle on this on the CLF...

I did it several times and never saw any gains in cooling, and one time the engine ran hotter oil temps..

increasing surface area and capacity is a good thing, however when fed with the same given amount of air things get a little weird, I think to optimize the efficiency more airflow is needed than the doghouse fan can give....

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

Post by **Marc** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:29 pm

I'm with Jake here; never saw any benefit unless you just like having spare capacity in the unlikely event that something gets clogged. Does no real harm, just something more "cool" to brag about. Spend your time and money elsewhere.

Freq2002 · Post by **Freq2002** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:19 pm

OK, now y'all bummed me out. I have a spare T4 cooler I'm putting on for simple lack of having a T1. Dunno where it went, but was hoping a larger coller would help the temps.
Ah well,...

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Where are we going, & why am I in a handbasket?...

Ed Brewer · Post by **Ed Brewer** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:54 am

While I have never tried the conversion, I have another concern. Assuming the T4 cooler does allow more air to flow through then there is less air to cool the heads. Everyone seems so hung up on cooling the oil that they forget that the heads need to be cooled, too!

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:35 am

freq, run the t4 cooler, it helps.

the logic of adding more cooling surface without changing the amount of air flow has been proven repeatedly by most all water-cooled car mfgs... they increase the radiator cores.

i don't believe that it robs air from the heads, either... even if there was less back pressure at speed with the t4 cooler, the vane setup in the shroud prevents cool-air pressure loss.

just be sure to use all factory tin; i made up a custom sealing frame to prevent air loss out the bottom of the oil cooler shroud area... i doubt that the naysayers have done that kind of detail work.

the conversion works well on my turbo motor.

dan
oceanstreetvideo.com

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:50 am

The fan shroud is setup so that no air is robbed from the heads. There is a special vien that pushed the air on the oil cooler seperately regardless of the pressure on the heads.

I am not running the T4 cooler yet, but in the process of making the conversion.

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese"

Ed Brewer · Post by **Ed Brewer** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:05 pm

No, I am thinking of a doghouse cooler. At a given RPM, the fan moves "X" amount of air. Some goes to the heads, and some to the cooler. The amount that goes to each is based on the resistance to airflow through each item. The vanes help, but resistance to airflow through media (being the cooler and heads) also decides how much air each item will see. If a cooler with more rows is used, then it has less resistence to air flow than the original cooler. Therefore, a greater percentage of air will flow through it. Since the fan is still only moving "X" amount of air, there is now less air delivered to the cylinder heads.

As I said earlier, I have not tried it, nor have I ever seen actual oil AND head temperatures for a comparison. However, simple fluid dymanics, as I described above, dictates that if more air is flowing past the cooler then less air is being delivered to the heads.

No flames, just expressing my view on the topic.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 1:32 pm

I see what you are saying Ed. And yes I think it would be somewhat of a factor if the T1 doghouse cooler was the restriction in the air flow path. It is my grease monkey opinion that the flow is restricted by the viens themselves and not the oil cooler at all. The viens weave a semi tangled mess that is not really great for mass air flow as it is. Basically the way I see it is that the T1 or T4 oil cooler should not hinder air movement any more or less to affect air flow at the heads.

Just the way I see it and definately subject to debate

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese"

Eaallred · Post by **Eaallred** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:45 pm

Has anyone here felt how much air actually gets blown past stock doghouse oil cooler at 3000rpm?

I have, and you'd be suprised. It is NOWHERE near what the heater outlets put out. I've checked it on a few motors (just to make sure it wasn't just my motor), and the actual output is very minimal. I'd have to compare the 'wind' coming out of it being similar to a mouse fart.

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Eric
64 Bug
64 Bus

vdubsinjensen · Post by **vdubsinjensen** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:51 pm

Hey Jet-Set,The vw's are running this saturday nite,the 13th 7:00 pm.,weather permitting.You can check the schedule at www.thundercrossmotorsports.com come check us out,the more the merrier!,Paul

Freq2002 · Post by **Freq2002** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:57 pm

Am I mistaken, but didn't the doghouse shrouds come with a wider fan? Or is it just certain models? I know the engine out of my super had about 1/2" more depth than the fans in my junk box. Just think that maybe VW compensated for the extra draw going to the cooler,...
Lookin at my shroud here, the bleed off port for the oil cooler rides right up against the fan & is about 1/2" deep. it's only over about 1/4 to 1/3 of the circumfrence of the fan on the 1-2 cylender side.
My thinking is that the difference in airflow would do about nothing to the cooling capacity of the engine in general.

[This message has been edited by Freq2002 (edited 07-09-2002).]