gene berg engines

VW'67 · Post by **VW'67** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 8:53 pm

i am looking at purchacing a gene berg 1776 engine. is it worth the (about)4,500(labor included in price) price tag? will it be a dramatic increase in power that im used to driving in my 34 year old stock 1500cc? any pros? cons? please let me know, im sure at least one of you out there have bought one, so let me know, thanks,

James

James2 · Post by **James2** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 9:45 pm

Well, I certainly don't have anything bad to say about Berg, except I don't agree with his ideas on Compression ratios. I also have had good luck with webber IDF carbs, which he seemed to to dislike, favoring the 42 DCNFs.

Having said that, I personally would not spend 4500 for a 1776 motor. I would however use some berg parts. A very nice 1776 can be built for about 2500 including carbs. For sheet metal a would run the stock doghouse and stock doghouse cooler. Always use a new or very low milage case. I also suggest new(ported) heads.

DPR and DMS both make a very nice 69mm Counterwieghted crank.

I suggest that you build the motor yourself, if at all possible.

If you have 4500 to spend, you might want to think about a stroker motor. I know reading berg's blue book, he has you scared to death to run anybody elses crank. Truth is CB performance, bugpack and Scat all make forged cranks plenty strong enough to run on the street and live.

Check out this sites sponser, www.aircooled.net. Good prices and good service.

And to answer your last question, yes the bigger motor makes the little bug feel like a totally different car. Even a 100hp 1776 will make a BIG difference. Good luck!

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 10:25 pm

Our 1776 engines use quite a few Berg parts, They come fully dynamically balanced, make a solid 100Bhp, and come with a 1 year, unlimited mileage, no fault warranty...

We do not believe in compression ratios as low as Berg, nor Semi Hemi combustion chambers. Our engines are not mass produced, and come absolutely 100% complete, turnkey, for less than 4K!!!

At this price, you are close to a 2056 type 4, engine, producing 120HP, and double the life of any type 1 engine, making the same HP numbers, even the 1776 does not make the grade..
www.aircooledtechnology.com is the link for you.

[This message has been edited by MASSIVE TYPE IV (edited 07-07-2001).]

GDRBO · Post by **GDRBO** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 11:26 pm

Don't get me wrong, I liked Gene. However I truly wish I had a dollar for every time he was beaten by a 92mm motor, a stroker crank he didn't like or any of his other "rules". If so I would be retired in Mexico and driving a brand new Bug!

tomt · Post by **tomt** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 8:16 am

I will sell you a top-quality 1776 turn-key engine for $4,450 (not including shipping). It will be fully dynamically balanced, make a solid 100Bhp, and come with a 1 year, unlimited mileage, no fault warranty. Availability is limited and it will ship from Georgia...
Seriously, almost doubling the hp of your current engine will certainly be a dramatic improvement. Just make sure your brakes, suspension and tires are up to the task.

danimal · Post by **danimal** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 4:14 pm

>>>>i am looking at purchacing a gene berg 1776 engine. is it worth the (about)4,500(labor included in price) price tag?<<<

james, when you buy berg parts, one thing you are paying for is the best machine shop in the acvw industry... that is important when you look at stuff like rods, which i have seen screwed up by the biggest names in the business.

that said, you can hand 5 motor builders the same bunch of berg parts, and some of them will hand you back a pile of junk that is guaranteed to not live an optimal life.

you might not even get back all of the high $$ parts you gave them to begin with.

build it yourself if at all possible.

dan
oceanstreetvideo.com

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 7:56 pm

When I rebuilt my current engine I reused my Berg 74mm crank, which had 80k on it. It was still in perfect condition and onlt needed some micro polishing to make it ready for another 80k. You get what you pay for... Get a Berg kit, but build it yourself.

Dave Cormack · Post by **Dave Cormack** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 10:17 am

I wrote an editorial about this very thing a few years back, concerning a little saying that is still hanging up in the Berg's shop. I don't know if papa Gene was the first one to say it, in fact I'm pretty sure he wasn't, but it's something I can see Gene saying, 5 little words that speak volumes- "Buy the Best, Cry Once" Now, even Clyde Berg will admit that there are a number of paths that lead to the same destination, but if you want proven parts and combo's, you can't go too far wrong with the Berg's. I agree with Dan, nobody, but NOBODY, will take the time and effort to assemble your engine, like you yourself will. You will obsess over each and every little detail, every sharp corner or casting flash in the case, every semi-tight fitting dowel pin or bearing ,etc, and you will be rewarded with a good running engine that should last a long time

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:03 pm

Over the past 25 years of doing VW performance, i've learned the hard way. But now I know that it's cheaper in the long run to buy quality parts. A part might be cheaper in the begining, but when it breaks, you will replace it along with whatever damage it did. And that's not including the labor and down time to repair it. Are there other quality suppliers than GBE... yes, but with GBE you can't go wrong. "Been there, done that"

Matt Harris · Post by **Matt Harris** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 5:00 pm

I have a Berg 2007cc engine. I paid $6200 for it 2 years ago and that's minus exhaust, muffler, sheet metal, oil cooler, etc.

Here is what I have to say: If you have the ability to blueprint an engine and check all machining tolerances in each and every internal part like rod/main journanls, butt grind on the thrust surface, straightness of the crank, big and small ends of the rods, main and cam bores, bearing fit, and the like then there I would just buy a CB crank and a case from Kustom One for $289.99. Send both to Rimco, they will check the crank for straightness and for a few of the things I mentioned above. They will also check the case to if you ask them. I would buy a set of rods from Steve Hollingsworth. He does really good rods. Now if you could check pistons and cylinders for piston skirt to cylinder clearance that's good too, but if you just use them and check the ring gaps you should be fine. As for the heads, I would recommend against paying $900 for a set of stock valve ported heads. I would also not have them semi hemied, but instead have the chambers hand shaped without the hemi. Fred Simpson ports a good head and you could get a similar head for way less. Jeff Denham as well, but he takes a long time or AJ Simms he does good work too. This brings us up to carbs. IDF's are good carbs. I have DCNF's and really like them as well, but don't think if you can't have DCNF's that you are settling if you get IDFs. And if you have $4500 to spend I would recommend a stroker crank. And if you want to check the crank and rods out, buy a cb 82 and Scat I or H beams VW journal. The CB 82 is about as much as a Berg 69 I think and you get 13 mm MORE STROKE!!

However if you don't fell confident in your ability to check all of the critical tolerances and bores then I would buy Berg w/o heads. Everybody makes mistakes though, so don't think that just because you buy all Berg you don't have to check certain things.

If you are set on using a 69mm crank DMS and DPR make great cranks.

And building an engine and checking all that stuff is allot of work and will take some investing in tools too, but it is SO much fun. And you won't have to do it again for many many miles. You can't beat BERG on some things though.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

The thing that experience helps you gain is knowing what to look for, and what will cause a problem. If you do build the engine, treat every part with respect, and no matter how many times you do it, don't get complacent..it kills engines.

Nobody may build your engine like you will, and nobody else will have to repair it either..

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:18 pm

a lot of what I learned was from screwing up and seeing what I did wrong! You can't teach that, no matter how many times you tell someone, unless they lose $ or time from it, it won't sink in.

Trebor · Post by **Trebor** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 11:36 pm

The first engine I rebuilt was a 327 v8 that I put in a v8 vega. I was as careful as a machinist could possibly be (I was also only 17). I started it and it knocked like crazy. I was pissed and kicked a dent in the fender. It appeared to me that the knock was coming from the bearings on the crank. How could that happen I thought, I checked everything with a micrometer, the clearances were all perfect. After I diassembled the motor, their was no sign of a spun bearing. I reassembled the motor and it knocked the same. F*%$@^% piece of sh*&, WHAM new dent. I was sure it was coming from the lower end. I used a broom handle against my ear and listened to the bottom of the oil pan. Yup it's the lower end I told my dad. I can hear it ringing through the crank. Well my dad said he would take a look and he found the problem immediatly. I did not clean the thread on the end of the crank well enough so the bolts holding the harmonic balalcer did not pull it tight against the crank. My hamonic balancer was just loose enough to wobble when the engine ran, and it was tapping the end of the crank. See I was right. It was on the bottom end, I said. The point I'm making is that it takes patience to build a motor and it's fun. If you take on the task, plan on screwing up a little and learn from it. If you buy Gene Bergs engine it will probably make you happy. But It will not have the satisfaction of being able to say I built it.

Robert

tomt · Post by **tomt** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 3:52 am

Moral of story --- if you pay someone else to assemble your engine you won't have a lot of body work to do when you are finished.

Matt Harris · Post by **Matt Harris** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:36 pm

Trebor that is HILARIOUS. I'm sitting at my desk laughing like crazy, especially at the "WHAM, a new dent" part!

Building an engine is a blast though. I'm itching to take my 2007 apart just to try some new stuff and rebuild it!!!!

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Matt Harris
78 x 90.5
2007cc
1971 Super