Type 1 vs. Type 4

Darryl · Post by **Darryl** » Wed May 30, 2001 10:26 pm

Hey Jake,

What about Bad62's challenge? Now that seems fair and more like it! A totally equal match, performance to performance.

And BTW: Gene Berg did give credit where credit was due, that's for sure. He never stole or claimed ideas that weren't his own. FYI

Darryl · Post by **Darryl** » Thu May 31, 2001 3:55 am

What motor and car did this magnificent 4th gear burnout? Was it your bus? The burnout on your site?

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Thu May 31, 2001 8:33 am

Jake,
I have a six rib 4.57 091 in my baja bug with 29" tall 30x9.5 Dick Cepeks. The trans is perfect with this tire height. Close to stock late bug gearing. It should easily do a 3rd gear burnout, but use some junk tires please

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Thu May 31, 2001 9:55 am

Ok Darryl,
You say type 4's are better suited to buses than bugs. Why did Porsche put the type 4 engine in 2000 lb 914's? In 914's these motors (1700,1800, and 2000) go on average 200,000 miles before rebuilds. As for stock HP, they started at 80hp and went up to 100hp! In racing form, people have been running these motors above 200hp for 20+ years. Not street racing but all out track racing! Even the Super Vee racers switched to Type 4 engines!
Ok you have a completely non-stock engine without any stock internals, turboed getting 260 hp, that's a great motor! But trying to compare it to what most of us run is a joke. Now I would love to see Jake's 3.0l turboed to compare it to yours! That would be a fair contest! There are a couple of turboed 2.0l 914's around. Bone stock engines getting 150 to 175 hp.
Do Type 4's rev? Heck yes! Several racers build motors that run at above 7000 rpm all day for track use. But what a lousy motor for street use, totally unsuitable to go to the store or an car show in.
Geoff

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76 914 2.0L

bad62bug · Post by **bad62bug** » Thu May 31, 2001 12:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jake Raby:
Bad 62..You just admitted it several times...Your engine is 4-5 times larger than stock....

Every part in your rngine is not stock, and the case is pushed to it's brink.. My 3.0 will be about as modified, Turboed, or not..

My way of thinking, is to build a smaller engine, and build it better. For street use, this is the way to fly.. I specialize in Street engines, not race. I do build a fair share of race engines, mostly off road.

So what times have you clocked off in the 62??

Any engine putting out 5 times it's original power, is also 5 times as weak as stock....Since your engine is so tough, put it up to the challenge, you may win that grand...If you want to wait till I finish the 3 liter, we can keep in touch..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I already have put my motor to the challenge for the last seven years. Now you build a motor with 5x it's stock hp and let me know how it goes. Like I said before Jake I trust what you say
As for times with my car I sucked out hard at English town no traction at all, no weight transfer
My 1st pass I shut down in 3rd gear, my shift light came on from will spin and I thought I broke 14.7@70mph
2nd pass tried to baby it off the line and stalled, restarted it and ran a 15.2@101.
I have a tape of it, it?s cool, and you can see how the car did not sit at all when leaving the line or shifting gears. Plus you can see my brake lights come on in the first pass when I shut it down for the shift light, and you can hear the motor shutting on and off all the way down the track. I killed the fuel pump when I installed it, ran it dry, I found out the hard way they don?t like that.
Ps. I think the type four is a good thing that?s going on but when people start talking poop about my type 1 it just pisses me off. lol

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Thu May 31, 2001 1:13 pm

This thread is getting more mature now.
I don't know who said Type IV engines don't turn RPMs, but here is an example.
When Oliver Knuf dynoed his 83x96 Type IV it put out 220 (over 220, I think he said 228) PS at 8400 RPMs. He can pull to 9500 with no valve float. He runs 11:1 static with good German gas though. Runs cool and runs daily.
The German Käfer Cup cars often spin to 8500 and race a whole season without taking the egnines apart. I have a friend in Belgium that races in the Divinol Cup, 6 hour races, putting out 220 horsepower from a T4.

Anyway, at least we all now know each engine has its place, and if you spend enough money they both haul ass! To each his own. I just wish my T4 conversion was on the road right now.

bad62bug · Post by **bad62bug** » Thu May 31, 2001 2:22 pm

Jake I never said you said type ones suck sorry you took it that way.
As far as pissing away a 6,000-dollar motor to try to make a 1,000 I don?t think so. Like I said before I think my motor has proved it?s self time and time again, plus I have 3 kids and a wife and it would be real hard to replace the motor. This is a pic of my buddies motor 2900cc 10 to 1 comp it pulled 255-hp at kewells shop at 6000rpm with a fk-89 style cam who knows what it would put out at 8000-rpms he drives the car to shows on 92 pump gas with no problems.

bad62bug · Post by **bad62bug** » Thu May 31, 2001 11:30 pm

Ok you have a completely non-stock engine without any stock internals, turboed getting 260 hp, that's a great motor!

Darryl doesn't have a 260-hp turbo motor.
I have the motor pushing about 5x it's stock hp? with great parts inside it. And this was the 1st motor I slapped together it was back in 1995 just looked at the paper work so I wouldn't doubt that it has more like 40,000 to 50,000 miles on it now.

69bajakid · Post by **69bajakid** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 1:53 pm

Hey Jake

if ya get around to doing a test between type 4 and type 1 power..let me know..i would love to see it.

i have been in type 4 and type 1 powerd cars..and maybe its just me..but i feel like a type 1..could not hold its own in the torque department against a type 4.

type 4s are stump pullers.. and personally i need stump pulling torque..and thats why i myself have droped my type 1 build up in favor of a type 4.

Cale

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"Its not how big you build it, Its how you build it big"

Darryl · Post by **Darryl** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:47 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bleyseng:
Ok Darryl,
You say type 4's are better suited to buses than bugs. Why did Porsche put the type 4 engine in 2000 lb 914's? In 914's these motors (1700,1800, and 2000) go on average 200,000 miles before rebuilds. As for stock HP, they started at 80hp and went up to 100hp! In racing form, people have been running these motors above 200hp for 20+ years. Not street racing but all out track racing! Even the Super Vee racers switched to Type 4 engines!
Ok you have a completely non-stock engine without any stock internals, turboed getting 260 hp, that's a great motor! But trying to compare it to what most of us run is a joke. Now I would love to see Jake's 3.0l turboed to compare it to yours! That would be a fair contest! There are a couple of turboed 2.0l 914's around. Bone stock engines getting 150 to 175 hp.
Do Type 4's rev? Heck yes! Several racers build motors that run at above 7000 rpm all day for track use. But what a lousy motor for street use, totally unsuitable to go to the store or an car show in.
Geoff

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, who are you and where did you get yer obviously confusing info? You should go back and read that post again and again. Not reving? Never stated that. Quote me or just read me, never bash me. It's getting to old and I've compiled a list, don't be on it. LOL

For the record I currently run a 1776cc. As near stock as any motor can get. Much like a 2270cc T4...good match exactly. I run a DLI Blower or 40mm Dells.

Jake, yer bus was tied down in a bleach box! Of course it'll spin. Only 3rd then power down to second? The sedan I must see. I am not calling you a liar, I honestly must see it.

You should have a TV commercial: "Crazy Jake's" T4's and T1's must go now!! Buy'em while they're hot from, "Crazy Jake". LOL

It's all humor my friends, laugh!