I can't get my Westy to start and run

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redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:19 pm

My '78 Fuel Injected Westy will run fine on ether, so I know that timing is all okay.
(contrary to what I thought earlier.) This also means that for some reason something in the Fuel Injection isn't working.

With my sister at the ignition switch (I need to get a remote starter!) I verified that the fuel pump works fine. Got a good stream of gas while she cranked it.

I've checked the grounds under the intake air distributor. Also, the Temperature sensor by #3 cyl. is connected. As far as I can tell, all vaccum lines are connected as well. No other wires disconnected either from what I can see. I adjusted the points as well today.

I think that my dual relay is the culprit. I was wiggling the wires on it (with the ignition OFF) and the fuel pump (which had been running with the ignition off) would turn off and on depending on how I wiggled. Someone told me that this probably means it's bad. He told me that there were two wires you could connect with a paper clip to see if the fuel pump would run, but I could not find them in the Bentley.

Also, when the engine is running after squirting ether into the intake, the oil and battery lights go off, but the EGR light doesn't. I checked out what Bentley had to say about the EGR. Mine is supposed to be an all-mechanically operated thing. (not like the earlier models) So I couldn't find anything electrical to unplug to disconnect it like that guy recommended. What controls that silly light? All the owner's manual says about it is that it will turn on every 15,000 miles to remind the driver to take it and have the emissions stuff checked. Is there something that a service person would reset to turn it off for another 15K? Where is it?

The tube that would connect the EGR at the air distributor to the filter isn't there. I don't even think it has a filter anymore. But if I can somehow bypass the system, none of this should matter, right? I did try to plug the hole at the air distributor. Made no difference.


So heres a couple more questions:
Can anyone think of anything else to check?
Does someone have a good, used double relay they'd sell? I'd be willing to buy it and if mine is actually good have it as a spare.

Anybody?

------------------
David
'90 Corrado
'60 Beetle
'78 Westy Campmobile
and other assorted VW's in various states of disrepair.

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Bob Ingman
Posts: 2869
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 3:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by Bob Ingman » Mon Oct 14, 2002 12:06 pm

David you might try checking your cold start unit or if you have a spare swap it out. They are dead in the water without it. Good luck. Bob Ingman

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:26 pm

I think the cold start thing is okay. (The fifth injector) Because sometimes it will start and run briefly even without the ether. (basically the same, though the ether will make it run a little longer if I spray enough into it)

Unclejohns78, I'd love the double relay.

Address:
David Cook
1415 Anderson Ave
Manhattan, KS 66502

Thanks all,

------------------
David
'90 Corrado
'60 Beetle
'78 Westy Campmobile
and other assorted VW's in various states of disrepair.

User avatar
unclejohns78
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by unclejohns78 » Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:24 am

I'd re-check all of the vacume lines and make sure the seals between the intake air distributor and the intake runners are good. Sometimes they will seal properly when you're back there messing with it but if they are cracked they will cause problems. I spent weeks getting all of the problems sorted out on my 78. Now I'm running duals weber 34's, getting ready to install dell 36's. I have a double relay somewhere, e-mail me if you want it. unclejohns78@juno.com

Brent

rich2481
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by rich2481 » Tue Oct 15, 2002 12:28 pm

I caught mine on fire with ether, timing was off. if you are sure that you have the injector connectors on right ( even my haynes book was correct with the wiring ) I would use a test light to watch the injectors firing as you turn the vehicle over( pull plug one side is gnd and other is a pulse, ) it is easy to see with a test light

only takes gas, spark and air to run,

good luck

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:28 pm

"only takes gas, spark and air to run,"

yes, but the problem is figuring out which it's not getting and why.

Like I said, I think it's gas I'm not getting.

BTW, will the double relay out of a '75-'77 bug work for me? I got tipped to one sitting in a junk yard (he didn't know for sure the year, just knew it was FI.) What about the other FI parts? Would it be worthwile to pull the rest of it too?

Oh, and I did have a fire extinguisher with the pin already pulled sitting there, just in case.

Thanks

germansupplyscott
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by germansupplyscott » Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:35 pm

david,

the egr light is triggered by a little black box located in the the speedo cable run. this box is under the front kick panel. the speedo cable goes into it, and then out of it. there is a reset button on the box.

how did you test the fuel pump?

here is the best way to test the fuel pump operation: remove the air box from the AFM (4 hex head screws inside the air box). with the key in the on position, use a soft probe (pencil works well) to move the air flap inside the AFM. if the pump runs, the system is working. system meaning the pump, the relay and the wiring.

this is a good place to look for more info:
http://www.type2.com/library/fuel.htm

scroll down to the fuel injection section and there are some good pages that might help. with any old FI system, the biggest problem is the wiring harness, people beat the crap out of them and they can't take the abuse. on any used van, i'd remove the whole harness and repair it before doing anything else, they are always really beat on old vans...

scott lyons

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:43 pm

"how did you test the fuel pump?"

I pulled the hose that comes from the pump off, stuck it in a jar, and had my sister crank the engine. In a very short time, I had a lot of gas in the jar.

I'll check that out for this weekend.

germansupplyscott
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by germansupplyscott » Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:27 pm

david,

that is a fine way to test the pump.

the double relay from the bug will work if you have a resistor pack on the left of bulkhead at the front of the engine bay. some late vans do not. if the pump is running when you crank the motor, the double relay is probably good.

go to the type 2 link and there is a link to the bosch service manual for l-jet (AFC) injection. download and print it, and follow it step by step, then your system will be fixed, i guarantee it. you need a decent digital multimeter and some patience. troubleshooting l-jet injection is mostly, but not entirely, electrical troubleshooting.

you can also follow the "guess and swap" method of troubleshooting, and eventually you'll find out what is wrong. nothing wrong with doing it that way, but a troubleshooting flowchart really helps.

scott lyons

[This message has been edited by punkinfair (edited 10-15-2002).]

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:58 pm

That's kind of what i thought, but the pump also sometimes runs with the ignition off, key out. If I wiggled the wires, it would turn off, and on again if I wiggled them some more. (With key OFF)

This is one reason I am thinking Double Relay. That pump should have no power if the key is off, but it is. This probably could only happen if the relay is fried. (at least what I'm told)

The bus is an hour away from me (I'm at school), so I can only play with it on the weekends. I think that I'll pick up the double relay and any other stuff that swaps (Including the resistor pack, which my bus has) I looked in my Rocky Mtn Motorworks catalog and marked all the stuff that it says would work for both.

That way, I'll either have the relay if I need it, or I'll have a spare if mine is actually good. I'll also print off that troubleshooting thing.

Thanks.

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:09 pm

The link called "AFC Fuel Injection Troubleshooting" is not working for me. Do you have a copy saved on your computer you could email me? Address: vwwestyman@yahoo.com

germansupplyscott
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by germansupplyscott » Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:12 am

http://www.conservatory.com/vw/manuals_ ... ronic.html


scott lyons



[This message has been edited by punkinfair (edited 10-16-2002).]

rich2481
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2001 3:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by rich2481 » Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:02 am

still really easy to buy a test light and watch to see if the injectors are being fired. The light cost under 10 bucks from most parts houses.

redcorradoguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by redcorradoguy » Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by punkinfair:
<B> http://www.conservatory.com/vw/manuals_ ... ronic.html


scott lyons

[This message has been edited by punkinfair (edited 10-16-2002).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks, It's printing out as I type.

I have a test light as well, it's going home with me this weekend.

I'm planning on going and purchasing the compatable stuff from that bug on Friday as well.

Does what I was thinking on the double relay make sense?


[This message has been edited by redcorradoguy (edited 10-16-2002).]

germansupplyscott
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:01 am

I can\'t get my Westy to start and run

Post by germansupplyscott » Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:22 am

david,

it makes sense, except i don't recall if the relay should have any power at it at all with the key in the OFF position. you may have a short to ground somewhere. all the FI components use ground as the switched side, i believe.

you need the mulitmeter, digital type, to do the troubleshooting, just in case that wasn't clear. the fuel pressure gauge is important too, but this can be made from a 5.00 gauge with a barb on it, and a piece of 7mm fuel hose and some clamps. there is a pressure tap between #3 & #4 injectors.

scott lyons

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