Disc Brakes

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Jeff T
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Disc Brakes

Post by Jeff T » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:49 am

Is there a kit out there to put disc brakes on a 67 or earlier bus?How about rear disc's with e-brakes? This is just an idea that I am thinking about. JT

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Marc
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Post by Marc » Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:44 pm

I've never seen a kit but I believe it can be done by using a `68 beam and `71 or newer spindles.

69ghia
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Disc Brakes

Post by 69ghia » Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:22 pm

Will the front end from a later model bolt on to the pre 67 or is there some fabricating that needs to be done?

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69 Ghia Coupe
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Pillow
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Disc Brakes

Post by Pillow » Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:24 pm

Check the archives here.

It is easy for both the 944 front disks and the early bay swap.

Plus and minuses to each though.

I am more than happy to help, but narrow down what you are comfortable with and we can corrupt you from there Image



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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino" - FS
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese" - FS

55rag
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Disc Brakes

Post by 55rag » Mon Jul 29, 2002 3:58 pm

Pillow,
I would be interested in how to put 944 brakes on my bus. I am currently doing this on my bug. Is it the same or do the 944 bearings fit right onto the bus spindle? Thanks for the info.

62T2Doood
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Disc Brakes

Post by 62T2Doood » Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm

Anyone know if those CB Performance wide 5 front disc brake kits are being made for busses?

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Marc
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Post by Marc » Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 69ghia:
<B>Will the front end from a later model bolt on to the pre 67 or is there some fabricating that needs to be done?

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I recall the bolt pattern on the mounting flanges is the same on the K&L beams and the EARLY balljoint beams - I'm not certain it's a direct bolt-in but it looks promising. Then you'd need to put `71 or newer spindles on it (I'd skip `71/`72 brakes and go straight to the `73-up stuff that's easier to find).

Pillow
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Disc Brakes

Post by Pillow » Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:19 pm

Marc is right on with the early bay information... But you now have a dune hopper that is 2" in the air! So torsion beam adjusters need welded in, see Bus Boys or Wolfgang Int.

The 944 kit is available through Old Speed, tell Russell I sent you Image Granted only the early 944 brakes work so no 4 pots or anything glamerous otherwise it might get complicated (too bad because I found a decent source for the 4 pot calipers, they throw them away because they are too hard to rebuild!). The kit is not cheap but it works... If you like to junkyard you can save some money though, but you still need to buy the custom stuff.



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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino" - FS
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese" - FS

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Post by Single Cab » Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:44 pm

I just did the Old Speed kit and have some insight for you. First it is really worth the time, trouble and $$. The bus now stops much better with the disks on the front. I also did the ?71-?79 Bay master cylinder swap, which is a must when converting to disks on a splittie. To get the 944 hubs to fit the split bus spindle the 944 bearings need to be spaced out 7mm each. This is the width of the spacers Old Speed provides. Looking at the parts in your hand and the hub you will think that there is no way this can be safe but once installed it is all goodJ You will also need the caliper brackets, which are the bulk of the cost for this kit anyway. According to Old Speed, the kit will also work for the drum brake Bay window busses.

I did have some issues with the Old Speed kit but first some background on 944 seals: I believe the stock seals were 10mm wide, metal outer and double lipped. The current replacement seals will either be stock or the 8mm single lip variety that is also used on the inner rear wheel bearings of some VWs. I originally received the 10mm wide type from Pelican parts and pressed one in flush only to remove it because I felt that it was riding on the bearing. In actuality it might have worked (and barely sealed) but I removed it because I couldn?t turn the bearing by hand with it installed. Another problem I found with using the 944 seals while doing the conversion is that with the inner bearings spaced out 7mm the seals (pressed flush with the hub) barely ride on the shoulder. At first I thought that something was wrong but Russell at Old Speed confirmed that indeed, with their kit, the seal barely rides on the shoulder. I for one don't really care to have the area exposed to the elements so I set about looking for a better solution. In looking locally for a replacement I could only find the 8mm type. I was however able to find some 62x45x13mm wide double lipped seals from a local bearing distributor, which are wide enough to be pressed in until there is clearance to the spindle. Using these seals will keep the area covered and hopefully rust free in case someone wants to return to stock in the future. So to sum it all up the Old Speed kit is good, not perfect but definitely worth doing. The scoop from Russell is that Old Speed will be coming out with a dropped spindle made from the 944 and Bay units in about a year. This will be very enticing to those considering the ball joint beam swap, as you won?t have to alter the beam (Avis adjusters) to get stock ride height anymore.

As an endnote I am currently working on a rear 944 swap into a splittie with big nut RGBs. I was at the machine shop today to work out some details with the Bay window hubs which will be modified to the 5x130 pattern and will hopefully have more news in a couple of days. BTW, the Bay hubs are low carbon steel and we were able to get the recess in the outer diameter welded up in preparation for re-drilling to the Porsche pattern. My goal is to get 944 rear disks with 6?: wheels onto my ?65 single cabJ Anyway enough rambling for now?

Regards,

Thomas

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Post by Single Cab » Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:50 pm

Damnit Pillow, you beat me to the post Image But seriously can you really get me some of those 4 pot calipers? I would like to work out an upgrade from the Old Speed kit and would swap design details for free (or really inexpensive) parts Image What can I say? Modification is a form of art! Props to MG for that...

Thomas

55rag
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Post by 55rag » Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:59 pm

Thanks for the info. It sounds like I would just need to get the 7mm spacer and caliper mounts from Old Speed.

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Post by Pillow » Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:13 am

You need the grease caps as well... Also the Beetle brake lines while you are ordering (they are shorter).

Thomas has been working his ass off getting that swap to work, kudos there for him!

I will check on the 4 pots when I visit the shop next time... Should be soon since I have to drop off a speedo to get rebuilt.

I finally sourced a small nut rear end complete from drum to drum (I just have to pull it and give the owner a hand cleaning up the joint for a upcoming move - cool guy I already knew). Got a lead on the rear 944 brakes today from a guy in NJ, so hopefully that works out. Anyway I plan on trying to use the small nuts RGBs and hoping that the 944 spindle will slide on the smaller stub axle like in a Beetle w/o needing to use the bay components. Of course the tranny gear ratios will need to be changed as well... I hope I can fit 215/75R15 tires on the 15x6" Fuchs to mount under there Image

This is how the ultimate SUVs are born! Time to go Explorer hunting Image



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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino" - FS
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese" - FS

Single Cab
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 2:01 am

Disc Brakes

Post by Single Cab » Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:25 am

Pillow,

Are you getting the '63 one year only trans and swapping just the RGBs or are you going to swap the whole shebang? I guess that if you have earlier small nut then the tranny re-gearing will be necesary Image On the 944 parts were you able to find the cast iron (or steel?) caliper brackets?

Thomas

Pillow
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Disc Brakes

Post by Pillow » Thu Aug 01, 2002 11:24 am

The small nut rear end is complete but I have no idea from what year, currently it is on a '67 parts bus that is getting killed. No clue until I can check the numbers on it.

As for the 944 rear brakes it is the early 944 but I will probably end up with the regular mounting plate and have to lathe it down to match what you found and then re-drill the 4 bolt holes.

Later,


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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'67 VW Deluxe Westfakia - "Dino" - FS
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese" - FS

Single Cab
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 2:01 am

Disc Brakes

Post by Single Cab » Thu Aug 01, 2002 2:51 pm

Why re-drill the bolt holes? They should be the same pattern. I would be careful about modding the AL caliper bracket in order to use the stock bearing cap. You could go with my original idea which was to make a piece that would do all the sealing and then have the AL bracket bolted down on top of it. It would require some counter boring of the bracket but would work nicely. Through the magic of crappy ASCII art it would look something like this from a side view:

Top or AL bracket side
__________
_|_|_____|_|_
|__|_______|__|

Bottom or RGB side

The seal could go in from the top and the bottom would have a step to keep the RGB bearing in place. If you were to machine the bracket to fit this piece then you could use the original paper gasket and the seal. Only down side would be the lack of a drain but you could work that in as well. I suppose that an original bearing cap could be used as the raw material so that the bolt hols would already be there. You would have to deepen the step on the RGB side to account for the missing backing plate.

Thomas

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