Bus Scoops

The quintessential people and stuff mover.

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Floyd
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Bus Scoops

Post by Floyd » Sun Jul 07, 2002 8:37 pm

Heres a question......

Do Aftermarket Bus Side Scoops on a split
really make any difference in helping your bus run cooler?

Now I know they don't flatter the look but i was wondering if forceing the air in would do any good. I have a set of NOS side scoops and I'm debating on wether to mount them on (ie drill holes) or not.

Floyd.

Single Cab
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Bus Scoops

Post by Single Cab » Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:10 am

I don't think mounting them would hurt. They will definitely get more air in there at speed. If at all possible mount them without drilling holes. There are ways to do it. If you don't want to use them I would be interested in them for my '65.

Thomas

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aircooledtechguy
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Post by aircooledtechguy » Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:45 am

Here's the results for my recent test of my scoops that I made for my bus. The scoops I made are REMOVABLE with absolutely NO holes drilled into the body. I've got a page on my VW tech site (URL in my sig) covering how to make these if anyone feels so inclined.

I finally got around to hooking up my gauges in my overhead gauge panel (Tach, oil pres., and oil temp.). I was picking up a couple parts for my T-4 motor at a fellow club members house on Sunday and he commented about my air scoops I made basically saying, "wha-cha runnin' those for,. . . They don't do nuthin' but heat up your motor." At the time I shrugged and said, "They can't hurt", But then it occured to me; NOW I CAN TEST THEM!!

So on the ride home from Fresno, CA to Lemoore, CA (about a 55 to 60 mile trip) I put them to the test. First here's what I'm running:

1776cc engine and a freeway flier tranny in my '66 E-Z Camper. The oil temp sensor is a VDO oil temp dipstick (these wer both checked together for accuracy in a pot of boiling water with 2 candy thermometers as references. They checked out within approx +/- 5 degrees. It's hard to get an exact reading when the graduations on the gauge is in 30 degree incriments!) The pressure sensor is a VDO dual sensing unit. Both oil gauges are VDO with the tack being a SUN mini tach. The road was hwy 41 south which is PERFECTLY FLAT and straight as an arrow for about 60 miles (GREAT for testing stuff like this but darned boring to drive).

The test:

SCOOPS ON: I drove the first 30 minutes in approx. 90F heat the oil temps stabilized in about 20 minutes at 200F with the engine turning 3400 RPMs (about 65mph). Running pressure was 70 PSI with the idle pressure at 40 PSI.

After 20 minutes, I noted the readings and pulled over. It took me about 2 minutes to remove the scoops (I designed them to be easily removable) and was back on my way.

SCOOPS OFF: After driving another 20 minutes the readings were VERY different. The oil temps stablized after about 10 minutes at 220F with the engine turning 3400 RPMs. The added heat thinned the oil enough that the pressure dipped to 65 PSI at speed and about 37 PSI at idle.

I again pulled over and put the scoops back on. Within 5-7 minutes, my oil my oil temps went down to 195F again. I forgot to check the pressure since I was so excited to see the temps drop. . . That was all the proof I needed.

CONCLUSION: I'm NOT going to say that ALL scoops will lower your temps on a splitty bus. I can attest with fairly good data though that the scoops on MY bus that I made work as intended and literally dropped my oil temps by 20F across the board. All I can say is that my scoops help my bus run cooler and I will be running them from now on when the weather gets above around 80F-85F. FWIW. . .

Those of us that have been into VWs a while know that there is a lot of "hear-say" about things and side scoops on splitties is one that everyone seems to have an opinion on but few have ever really tested it out for themselves. Well now I have and I agree that scoops (well MY scoops anyway) help to cool the engine on my splitty bus.


------------------
Regards,

Nate Morse
Owner, Nate's WaterArt:
www.nateswaterart.com

Nate's Air-Cooled VW Tech Pages:
www.nateswaterart.com/vw/

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Marc
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Post by Marc » Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nate@nateswaterart:
<B>

...CONCLUSION: I'm NOT going to say that ALL scoops will lower your temps on a splitty bus. I can attest with fairly good data though that the scoops on MY bus that I made work as intended and literally dropped my oil temps by 20F across the board. All I can say is that my scoops help my bus run cooler and I will be running them from now on when the weather gets above around 80F-85F. FWIW. . .

Those of us that have been into VWs a while know that there is a lot of "hear-say" about things and side scoops on splitties is one that everyone seems to have an opinion on....

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ain't that the truth - you are of course prepared to defend them every time someone who just "knows" that they won't work tries to help you out by telling you that. I ran similar experiments with good results many years ago and decided to run them on my Singlecab - I got harangued at every bus gathering.
...maybe you should carry some graphs and charts to show your data to disbelievers.

------------------
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H.L. Mencken
`67, 69, `77 Beetles, `73 II (Type I engine), `86 Audi 5000s, etc. etc.
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Floyd
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Bus Scoops

Post by Floyd » Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:00 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply Nate.

I bookmarked your site sometime back and thats when I started thinking about side scoops. I found this pair on Ebay for about $30 so I though I would give em a try.
I need to figure a way of securing them without drilling holes. Maybe epoxy or heavy duty double stick tape.
I know I'll probably get razzed for em but I would rather run cool then look cool.

Thanks for the offer Thomas. If they don't work for me, I'll post them here.

Do any of you guys run a remote oil cooler?
If so where do you mount yours?

Floyd.

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CLKWRK
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Bus Scoops

Post by CLKWRK » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:34 am

All this talk of scoops and lower engine temps has gotten the little wheels turning in my head, what if i made a REMOVABLE scoop for my turbo ghia.......It might just happen Image
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bryan_abad/l ... ph&.view=t

Dave R
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Bus Scoops

Post by Dave R » Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:59 am

It's nice to see that someone else actually takes the time to test stuff before throwing it out or dismissing it.

A couple of years back, I put scoops on my old '69. I had beefed the engine up and was trying to deal with the extra waste heat from pushing my bus around too fast. I installed them same location that the old splitties had their vents.

I had installed a thermocouple probe in the engine when assembled and have a nice digital temperature gauge in the dash (a compact unit, digital, 0.1°F resolution, tested - data acqusition is part of my job), so testing the scoops was a matter of maintaining constant load, hoping that the air temps remained constant, and applying some masking tape.

At 65mph and 75°F air temps, I was able to document over ten degrees of benefit to the oil temps from the scoops. I dind't record and average the readings and they tend to slowly drift with the winds & subtle grade changes, but it was in the neighborhood of 12-13°F and that was enough for me to keep those ugly scoops on my bus - and defend them.

But in closing, I will say that the scoops down low increase engine noise and the amount of dirt/grit on the engine. Oh well.

Dave R

62T2Doood
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Post by 62T2Doood » Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:15 am

If you haven't bought those scoops off eBay yet, you may want to do some pricing. I've seen them out there for cheaper than $30. You can buy them new for less in fact.

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<I>Bryan...St.Petersburg, FL
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'72 Beetle "Punchy"</I>

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Marc
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Post by Marc » Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:27 am

(sheepishly) I made the ones for my ratty work truck out of a Rubbermaid dishpan ($1 at the thrift store and unbreakable!)

Pillow
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Bus Scoops

Post by Pillow » Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:44 am

LOL, Marc you kill me man Image

I have seen numerous scoops made out of caffeteria trays which have been cut in half.

I can accept that the scoops help, but good God are they ugly... Just my opinion... But then again form should follow function.



------------------
Adrian Pillow
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Pablo
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Bus Scoops

Post by Pablo » Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:06 pm

Hi Nate

Thanks for the write up. It's nice to have someone share their detailed testing.

I would be very curious to know what REVERSING the scoops would do. I'm betting that it would be considerably better than no scoops, and (as wierd as it sounds) it could be even better than scoops facing forward. (Might not look as cool, though.)

Paul

rich2481
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Bus Scoops

Post by rich2481 » Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:24 pm

Nice to hear they are removable, great idea

Dave R
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Post by Dave R » Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:43 pm

Floyd,

If I had read your post more thoroughly, I'd have answered your cooler question.

Yes, I have one. A 72 plate "mesa" cooler with oil thermostat, full flow, plumbed off of my o-berg filter circuit. This is on my current '69 bus - not the old beater I abused for research purposes(!) I have the cooler mounted inside the engine compartment up against the inside of the driver-side scoop. Out of sight, no rock hazard, plenty of room. I went this route on the new car after driving around in some wickedly hot weather on the way to Yellowstone a while back. Scoops or not, when it gets to be 100°F+ and you are pushing that big nose down the highway loaded up for camping with a family of four AND a canoe on top, those things need help cooling.

Although I haven't instrumented the thing & logged temperatures, I can say it makes a big difference when the weather is hot. Yes, it will preheat the air going to the carbs & to cool the engine, but the engine runs cooler and that is better. Someday I'll get some data, but now other projects distract me.

Dave R

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aircooledtechguy
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Post by aircooledtechguy » Fri Jul 19, 2002 7:46 pm

Hey Paul,

I may have to try that this weekend if I have the chance (reverse the scoops). I'm going to heading up and down that same stretch of road on my way Fresno again. I guess is could be kind of like a coul induction hood on a muscle car, huh??. . . only WITHOUT all that horse power Image If I do get a chance to test it, I'll reply back here with what I find out.

------------------
Regards,

Nate Morse
Owner, Nate's WaterArt:
www.nateswaterart.com

Nate's Air-Cooled VW Tech Pages:
www.nateswaterart.com/vw/

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aircooledtechguy
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Post by aircooledtechguy » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:21 pm

Paul and all,

This morning before leaving, I switched the scoops around for a test of the "cowl induction, muscle-car" approach to the scoops. Since I was admittedly a little sceptical about the outcome, I was ONLY willing to try this in the cooler morning air for fear of total melt-down in the afternoon temps (over 100F).
Again, I was cruising on hwy 41 @ 3400 RPMs (approx. 65mph. Ambient temps around 85F-90F (don't have an accurate temp since the bank's thermometer was not working today)

It took about 2o-25 minutes for the engine temps to level off. They leveled off at about 225F.

I pulled the scoops off and swapped them back so that they were in the normal position (open end forward).

I immediately got back on the hwy and the temps dropped and stabilized at 200F.

My Conclusion: What worked well for muscle hoods of the 60s and 70s, did NOT work well for the side scoops. The temps werent that far off the numbers I got without any scoops. I did notice that the temps rapidly dipped almost 5F-7F just as I was decellerating off the hwy near Caruthers, CA.to switch the scoops back around. So at slow speeds this *may* help, but At lower engine speeds with less wind resistance, the temps are always lower, so. . . At hwy speeds though, reversing the scoops increased oil temps by 25F.

Hope this helps.



------------------
Regards,

Nate Morse
Owner, Nate's WaterArt:
www.nateswaterart.com

Nate's Air-Cooled VW Tech Pages:
www.nateswaterart.com/vw/

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