Webcam wear?

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:08 pm

These are pictures of my webcam 86, which ran for about 1000 miles before teardown in my bug (reason: change of case for re-use with original cooling for use in my 412).
Cam doesn't seem to be damaged and has full lift and lifters looked fine too, but I am concerned about what seems to be porosity!
This porosity is not only visible in the lobes, but als on the bearing surfaces. That indicates the cam blank is a porous casting to begin with!!

This is the first time I used a webcam (bought 1,5 year ago) and I am not impressed with this webcam quality...

Which cam grinders do NOT use the EP93/CWC cam blanks?

Same porosity on bearing surfaces:

Walter

Post by **Piledriver** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:47 am

It may not be coming through in the pictures well...

Looks like you aren't even through the spray on moly coating on the lobes.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:06 am

Wally, that cams looks fine to me.... What did the lifters look like?

The CWC blanks are what we use as well, they are the only blanks today that are worth a damn. Some of the CWC blanks can be porous but if it were causing you an issue with microwelding it would be very obvious.

We are moving some cam grinding, for some new profiles that we have in house.. The Web profiles will remain with Web, but our newer stuff and all the rollers will be total RAT components, including the new (and totally nasty

9700 series cams that Tom and I are profiling now...

does Schleicher sell cam blanks??? What blanks are the Euro cams ground on?

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:13 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Wally, that cams looks fine to me.... What did the lifters look like?

Ok than...
I am really surprised that this is ok, as up close all the pits you see in the picture which make up the specs and spots, are really all small craters in the surface..

And the bearing surfaces are not smooth either! it almost looks like all its spinned surfaces are all covered in rust pits

It may not be sharp in the pic (difficult to photograph this close with my camera), but it surely shows doesn't it?
Lifters were Mahle's type 1 lifters and they looked like polished and are generally much smoother than the cam is.

does Schleicher sell cam blanks??? What blanks are the Euro cams ground on?

Well, I am just a consumer of the end product through a dealer, so I wouldn't even know where the manufactor is, let alone if he sells cam blanks.
I have heard once that Schleicher used original VW blanks. However I have never seen a large base circle Schleicher cam. They all seen to be small base circle. Thats what I like about Webcams (and others): they are ground on larger base circles if you have stock stroke.
Since the schleicher cams are different from original VW cams (the cast-in markings are anyway), I have no idea what blanks they use. They do seem to be made of a finer grain than the CWC blanks as far as my experience goes.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:24 pm

Wally. Just from my experience...which is limited....that camlooks normal for about 1000 miles. As pildriver noted....the "patchiness" you see in the second photo looks a lot like what the moly coating (and possibly black phosphate coating) that Webcam applies to their cams. In that second picture the odd patch on the flanks is consistant with the pressure difference that the lifters have coming over the top an also rounding teh base.
I have seen this patchiness on a couple of brand new cams that are just wearing off moly and phosphate. Yes...you are seeing a graininess....but I would bet that the high spots that make up te hhighs and lows are some of the coating. That coating itself should not cause any wear as it wears off. Inspection of the bearings will tell the tale though. Ray

speedy57tub · Post by **speedy57tub** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:54 pm

...I agree, the cam is not even finished breaking in. It's getting there but it looks fine to me too. If you reuse the lifters, I hope you place them back in their original locations so they mate with the same lobes.

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:46 pm

If you are still worried about it, Wally. I'll happily pay shipping, as long as the lifters are indexed.

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:55 pm

I have seen the same thing.
The cam blank looks so porous, it is like cheese...

Unless it eats lifters, you just have to not worry about it!
It's a zen thing, no brain, no pain!

Look at it this way... Maybe they make them that way on purpose to hold more oil!

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:06 am

Thanks for the reassuring guys.
Yes, the lifters were indexed (of course! )

I am curieus tho if Pauter uses the same cam blanks. Does anybody know this?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:57 pm

Yes, Pauter uses these blanks as well.. The only others available are from Integral and they are pure junk.

If we have another issue with cam blanks we are going to say to hell with it and make cast/ chill them in house.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:03 pm

Thanks Jake,
Yes, I can fully understand. Can't you just machine cams from a bar and use tool steel cam followers? With CNC-aid it might not be much more expensive that way

dr. no · Post by **dr. no** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:07 am

Glad you posted these--I just opened my engine (for another reason) and found my 9558 looks a lot like that after a few thousond miles...

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:51 am

Wally wrote:Thanks Jake,
Yes, I can fully understand. Can't you just machine cams from a bar and use tool steel cam followers? With CNC-aid it might not be much more expensive that way

Yep, but if we are going through all that I won't waste the time with keeping it flat tappet...

Thats why nthe roller development is in such high gear right now.. It's actually going to be affordable once we get the program and the most effective cam grinds dictated.