QSC "2.4L" Waterboxer pistons

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:57 am

I've been trying to buy some of the AA high compression 95.5s, AA says they were all shipped to Europe recently, but I (think) I found a set at CIP1, very helpful customer service, Gary at CIP1 actually held off shipping to measure them for me.

AA lopped off a mm or so on the last ones in the US to drop the CR. (totally screwing up the deck height)

IN any case, as the AAs are NLA, I stumbled on QSC as a source. These are the guys doing the Chinese Nickasils for T1s and T4s, and I have yet to actually hear anything bad about their products. (from anyone who has actually checked them out)

They sell a set of "2.4L" P&L for the WBX, but they are actually stock replacements in 96mm, coated skirts etc.

Here's what I got back from them:
(Immediate response)

"Hello Mr. Greg,
Thanks for your email. Pin top to piston height is 24mm, pin diameter is 23.90mm, from pin center to piston top is 35.95mm.
Best Regards,
Quality Specialty Components
4610 Santa Anita Ave #B&C, El Monte, CA 91731, USA
Tel: 626-443-9090 Fax: 626-443-9001
Email: [email protected]@yahoo.com
Website: www.qscusa.com "

(We still don't know the dish size)

I have already reminded them that 96x76.4mm is 2.2L... I thought they were for an 84mm stroker.

akciddento · Post by **akciddento** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:09 pm

did you get a price on these ?
what does the CR work out to on a standard 2.1 head ?

ta

dan

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Serranos sells `em for <$200 IIRC.

I could not get the dish size info out of them, QSC just resells I assume, and I doubt they would CC them just for me... (but if enough people ask...)

I was hoping someone here would know the dish size.

If the AAs I have coming don't check out, I'll find out myself.

Post by **Piledriver** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:08 am

Hey--- Scroll down to the end of the page on the pistons/cylinders page...

Those WBX head castings don't appear to say AMC...

And the T1 heads both look VERY interesting.

wellington · Post by **wellington** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:14 am

Steve Houston going to cc the chamber volume and give pricing. I've also asked for any other measurements available, stroke.
www.serranosvw.com

wellington · Post by **wellington** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:47 am

Steve has just told me they cc to 48cc.

MnMike · Post by **MnMike** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:34 pm

That whole page is very interesting. So these are the guys selling the 101.6 nickasil cylinders. Do they sell direct?

Post by **Piledriver** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:01 pm

wellington wrote:Steve has just told me they cc to 48cc.

Thank you steve, whoever you are!!

I'm almost sorry I ordered the AAs now, I could have just installed the 86/1600DP regrind cam (Now waiting on Webcam) straight up...

wellington · Post by **wellington** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:53 am

Steve is from serranos

tencentlife · Post by **tencentlife** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:11 pm

from pin center to piston top is 35.95mm.

I measure a set of OEM Mahle pistons as having a pin-to-top height of 36.7mm. This is in agreement with the centerline-to-deck height of 212mm on a 2.1wbx. That puts these QSC's at 0.75mm too low. A guy at Samba had a set of AA's in his hand awhile back, and measured the error on the newest generation of AA's to also be 0.75mm too low. The new AA's also had 48cc dish.

The piston dish cc's are fine at 48cc (OEM is 47cc), but you'll still have low CR with a 76mm crank (76.0 , not 76.4) unless you modify rod length.

If you used an 82mm crank, and 137.2mm (5.4") rods, you could shave 1.25mm off the tops and get perfect zero deck. You'd have to figure how much piston dish volume was lost to calc the CR, but I believe it would be within reason.

Plus the QSC's are 96mm, not 95.5 like the AA's. Good for a few more cc's.

Post by **Piledriver** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:37 am

Good info.

I'll have to hope the AA's I have coming are old stock then, or I'll be trimming jugs/flycutting heads or such.

(Or upgrading to an 82mm stroke... and firing up the Bridgeport and the shell mill, as I want higher CR, that' might be how I'll have to go, I have an 86/1600 DP grind coming, for use with 1.4 rockers...)

How's DPRs crank quality lately? I might as well go T4 center main...

51MAN · Post by **51MAN** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:35 am

Mmmm.. keep us posted, thinking of a couple of stroked cranks at the mo.. group purchase???

Need reliability and torque. how did you arrive at that cam choice?

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:27 am

I ran the numbers on available Web profiles...

Requirements---Miller cycle, ~stock RPM range, and cam profiles known to work well with T4/WBX lifters +1.4 rockers.

Cam will likely be installed 7 degrees retarded (1 tooth IIRC) , evens out the overlap a bit , and will correct the dynamic CR to ~7.3:1 and boost the low end/efficiency somewhat. (late ex open event)

Still debating whether the Vanagon or the 914 is getting the GT17 or the IHI VF14/RJ11 hybrid.
(IHI one has a FAR less restrictive, much larger turbine, leaning towards putting that on the T4)

Will be working the ex port for now, later I'll have some other heads "done", they look fine at 60+K miles, seats check still liquid tight.

(I think aircooled.net put OEM valves in them or something, I don't think AMC supplied valves would have held up like this, based on reputation)

A 80mm crank will only require ~1mm off the top, leaning towards that. Turbos and a very high first ring don't get along...

Will decide when the parts show up and I can get some calipers on them. (UPS says they just hit Dallas at 3AM... May have them tomorrow)

I may just give it the finger and use the low CR for more boost, but I really don't like the idea of poor squish, I'm trying to improve the gas mileage, not build a drag Vanagon.

If my machinist hadn't been so fast and efficient on the Unitech rod rebush, I would have moved the pin some...

What DPR has in stock/how fast it will be available will also be a factor, as I have to get the van back on the road sooner than later, it can't turn into a long term project.

Will be running NA initially, on the stock injection.

The new exhaust will (probably) be an extensively modified CB(TriMill) mid engine buggy setup.

(Simply most bends for the buck... Result probably won't put turbo over the trans at all, although...)

Post by **Piledriver** » Mon May 07, 2007 12:04 pm

AA pistons arrived, as mentioned previously, 35.75 pin height, ~48cc chambers...

The pistons are Chen Shin castings, and I was pleasantly surprised to find the skirts anti-scuff coated.

I am highly skeptical of running .077"+ deck though...
(Assuming the stock ones provide .040")

Oddly enough, I think I saw a set of these advertised as being for "78mm" stroke on e-bay, which would in fact work ~perfect, sadly not with a stock crank.

I'm leaning towards putting the cam in straight up, provides a 7.0:1 dynamic CR. (only .3:1 lower than stock if my stock MV cam spec data is right, the MV cam actually closes the intake later than a Web86)

Perhaps I'll have the heads flycut. (step cut AMCs)

Hella cheaper than a new crank, and just as effective.

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:53 pm

Pile,
You might consider an S&S vanagon exhaust header. We had a customer supply one for his van last week. It fits just about as well as new VW replacement pipes, cheaper, and puts the 4-1 collector below/outside of #3. A short up pipe and you could mount your turbo above/left of the tranny.