timing locked or unlocked

onebad65 · Post by **onebad65** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:57 am

i have a 1915 ts turbo locked at 24.

myquestion is would the car run better if i left it unlocked and just limited the advance to 24 buy about 2500-2800 rpm?

would drivability really improve?

it doesnt have a hard time cranking or anything.

onebad65 · Post by **onebad65** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:51 pm

i did the search but i want some real opinions on this, i cant use vacc advance and retard with a 6 btm. so im either gonna keep it locked or let it advance up to 24 by 25-2800. wich way would really be better?

Eddie Brown · Post by **Eddie Brown** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:12 pm

onebad65 wrote:i did the search but i want some real opinions on this, i cant use vacc advance and retard with a 6 btm. so im either gonna keep it locked or let it advance up to 24 by 25-2800. wich way would really be better?

In my last motor, I limited the advance to 24*. It ran a tad smoother IMO. I liked it. It had plenty of pep.

James Buchan · Post by **James Buchan** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:45 am

I actually found my car ran better and performed better at 21Deg locked.

Post by **seabeebuggy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:31 am

I would only run unlocked. it was so much better for me. I run 22* retard ojn boost but full 28 when not on boost.

Matt Davis · Post by **Matt Davis** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:30 pm

James Buchan wrote:I actually found my car ran better and performed better at 21Deg locked.

James, try even less the more boost you put to it.

turbo_bob · Post by **turbo_bob** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:20 pm

James Buchan wrote:I actually found my car ran better and performed better at 21Deg locked.

James, dont you know that your not susposed to deveate from the 24 locked number set forth by the past Pro-Turbo VW racers

James Buchan · Post by **James Buchan** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:27 pm

I'm not one to follow the pack... And I amplanning and playing with it more once our track re-opens in the spring.

disturbthepeace · Post by **disturbthepeace** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:12 pm

I gained an avg of 8hp above 2600rpm, 12hp peak at the wheels when i set it back 20 degrees total at 15psi over prev 25 degrees.

I have kept my 009 unlock for drivabilty reasons, but have never tried locking it. If the dist advance springs and weights are working properly IMO there is no reason to lock it out. Locking is just assurence that your dist will perform consistantly(the 009 not having the most stable of timing curves from what I read)...

Also head temps were down 12-20 degress.. If you worked on you quench when the motor was built you will see more power with less advance.......

Post by **seabeebuggy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:19 pm

disturbthepeace wrote: I have kept my 009 unlock for drivabilty reasons, but have never tried locking it. If the dist advance springs and weights are working properly IMO there is no reason to lock it out. Locking is just assurence that your dist will perform consistantly(the 009 not having the most stable of timing curves from what I read)...

.

this is ok if you set total advance to 24. not 28. leaving it unlocked and over 24* will lead to problems.

panel · Post by **panel** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:57 am

This should be made a sticky. This question is asked all the time

scott the viking · Post by **scott the viking** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:43 am

panel wrote:This should be made a sticky. This question is asked all the time

Good idea...thank you.

mike thompson · Post by **mike thompson** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:47 am

The very best deal for power and efficiency is the most advance the engine will tolerate without ping at all times.
When I was a kid my dad had a cut down model A and it had a lever to move the advance - back for starting and ahead for running the engine. That and a manual choke -mixture control and another lever for throttle opposite the spark control under the steering wheel. All those things have been automated since the thirties.
I ran a locked dist for a try, since it seemed so popular. The engine kicked back against the starter after the engine was warm and was dull in cruise condition, as compared to the dist. with cent. advance and vac can. This is on a street deal. The race guys don't care about cruise condition and have big cams which drop cranking compression. So those things are not an issue for them. If you are in the street camp your car will just run nicer with your spark coming in where the engine likes it.

Mike

Howie · Post by **Howie** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:02 pm

If you are running the 6BTM box, you need a functional distributor. The 6BTM reads the amount of boost, and retards 1-3 degrees per pound of boost, your choice. Max retard is 15 degrees.

With a locked distributor, you don't need the 6BTM at all.

I run a 6BTM with the billet distributor. It is set at 38 degrees, (semi-hemi cut heads) all in by 2500, the 6BTM is set at 3 degrees per pound. At 5 pounds boost, my timing is at 23 degrees, with 7 more pounds of boost on the way.

I couldn't be more pleased with the performance!

Buggsy · Post by **Buggsy** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:45 pm

I'll leave the debate to the race guys as to how much advance you should run at WOT with 15 pounds of boost. But if your not running at least 32 degrees advance in town with the throttle open 20% or less, then your just cutting your cruising torque in half. Under certain circumstances, I'm probably running as much as 42 degrees advance. Modern EFI cars can run as much as 52 degrees advance at times, and get twice the mileage they used to. That is what knock sensor technology is all about.