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 Post subject: Re: Power
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:26 pm 
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egspot wrote:
Art Thraen wrote:

Remember: the heads will decide the power the stroke will decide where its made (at what RPM)

The same heads on different stroked engine make the same power with the same cam and carbs, just at a different RPM.


I am no expert and that is why I have to ask:

My understanding is that:
1- The cam decides at what rpm the power is delivered.
2- The displacement (pist. & cylis.) , and the heads with the right exhaust and carburetion provide the power.
3- The stroke provides the torque for climbing and hauling.

Do I have it wrong? If so, I would like to know.

Thanks

egspot


For the most part I think you got it, What iv experinced is if the carbs, heads, exhaust, cam are the same 2275, 2332, 2440cc will make about the same power, the longer stroke engine will make the power at a lower RPM.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:26 pm 
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HMM, I was thinking of building a 2109 (76x94) or 2110 (82x90.5) so my understanding of each engine is the 2109 will rev up quicker and accelerate quickly the 2110 will have more flat out power, does that sound retarted???


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 Post subject: retarded?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:40 pm 
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dietrich the german wrote:
HMM, I was thinking of building a 2109 (76x94) or 2110 (82x90.5) so my understanding of each engine is the 2109 will rev up quicker and accelerate quickly the 2110 will have more flat out power, does that sound retarted???


It all depends what you want your engine for? Daily driven with freeway and hill climbing. City driver with drag ability. Your choice.

ie. 94s will spin that 76mm faster than the 90.5s would spin your 82mm (less displacement to turn the crank.) The power band will mostly be determined by your cam, heads/walves (port/polish), carbs, and exhaust combo.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:30 pm 
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I live in So Cal and drive my beetle on a regular basis. It would see lots of fwy driving and street, i wouldn't break records but would want some decent numbers at the track. I'm leaning towards the peppier 2109 what do you guys think??? Cam would be a Web 110 or Web 109, with ported and polished 40x35's or stock sized valves. I would go with a merged exhaust system. Carbs i have a few sitting around some 40 kadrons and some 36 dellortos. I could always sell those and get some 44 webbers???


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 Post subject: 2109
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:06 am 
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dietrich the german wrote:
I live in So Cal and drive my beetle on a regular basis. It would see lots of fwy driving and street, i wouldn't break records but would want some decent numbers at the track. I'm leaning towards the peppier 2109 what do you guys think??? Cam would be a Web 110 or Web 109, with ported and polished 40x35's or stock sized valves. I would go with a merged exhaust system. Carbs i have a few sitting around some 40 kadrons and some 36 dellortos. I could always sell those and get some 44 webbers???



I am no expert .

I had a great guy do most of the work for me. The engine is a 2165 as follow:

94 case and full flowed.
78 forged crank
Stock rods
engle FK41 cam
94 P&Cs.
Dual Dells 36
044 heads but with single HD springs
Stock aluminum pushrods
Stock rockers for now
1 1/2 header with heater boxex

I do 50mph at about 2000-2500 rpm on a stock trany with195 60 15 tires on the back. When I push on any gear, there is no questions asked. it just take off.

Your ported and polished 40x35's with merger will ad to that experience. Those Dell 36s are great once you jet them for your motor. And Yes they (Dell 36s) are sweet.


Last edited by egspot on Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:48 am 
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Im with Art - 2275
People build them all the time for a reason...
"B" pistons were designed to work with an 82 stroke.
Other strokes have some kind of compromise in piston support or engine width.
94s have proven themselves to be more reliable than previously thought.
plus, you have 42 x 37 and 94s already... :?:

Quote:
I thought about taking those heads back and getting the cnc'd wedge ports but then that almost makes it to where i have to build a 2276-2234 and put some 48's on it


You say that like it's a bad thing!! :D

Any stroker crank costs basically the same, and all are going to have to be checked for clearance.
So there's a little more clearancing, no big deal.
48s aren't really that much more money than 44s.
36s on a stroker would kind of be a waste, unless you are building a bus motor or something...
If you are worried about drivability or longevity, put in a mild cam.
The bigger motor will have to rev less, and not work as hard as the smaller one.
Nobody has ever regretted going too big.
Too small, yes, I am regretting that right now.
Too peaky, too much cam, sure.
But not too big.
Nobody ever regrets that.
Ask any of these guys with 2109 or 2165 if they would trade right now for a 2276.
If they say no, they are lying... :P

_________________
Cheap, Fast, Reliable...
Pick One.


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 Post subject: agree
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:24 am 
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Clatter wrote:
Im with Art - 2275
People build them all the time for a reason...
"B" pistons were designed to work with an 82 stroke.
Other strokes have some kind of compromise in piston support or engine width.
94s have proven themselves to be more reliable than previously thought.
plus, you have 42 x 37 and 94s already... :?:

Quote:
I thought about taking those heads back and getting the cnc'd wedge ports but then that almost makes it to where i have to build a 2276-2234 and put some 48's on it


You say that like it's a bad thing!! :D

Any stroker crank costs basically the same, and all are going to have to be checked for clearance.
So there's a little more clearancing, no big deal.
48s aren't really that much more money than 44s.
36s on a stroker would kind of be a waste, unless you are building a bus motor or something...
If you are worried about drivability or longevity, put in a mild cam.
The bigger motor will have to rev less, and not work as hard as the smaller one.
Nobody has ever regretted going too big.
Too small, yes, I am regretting that right now.
Too peaky, too much cam, sure.
But not too big.
Nobody ever regrets that.
Ask any of these guys with 2109 or 2165 if they would trade right now for a 2276.
If they say no, they are lying... :P


All right, agree with almost all. Mine was a planned choice .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:53 pm 
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I hear you clatter. I wouldn't mind building a 2276, to me its the most researced and proven engine out there. So many of them have been built and written about for so many different applications. There is a lot of bulletproof 2276 combo's out there. I figure the 2276 will cost just a tad more and carb upgrade is mandatory


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:58 am 
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Posts: 108
i have a 2276 motor that drives like a stocker. BUT when i lay on the throttle, this is what happens------>
Imageclick for in car video!

that first run is against a supercharged mach1 mustanng.

go big and dont be afraid to go big on valves either.(44x38)
lou


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Where is the Mustanng?? heeeheeee


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Posts: 108
1 SEC BEHIND OR SO. you can see the times up in the corner of the windshield. i cant wait til next year, i should be quite a bit faster. -lou


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:10 pm 
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Egspot- How's that motor when you drive it, did you like your results of the combo?


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 Post subject: results
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:13 pm 
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dietrich the german wrote:
Egspot- How's that motor when you drive it, did you like your results of the combo?


I truly love the way it drives. It is a daily driven motor and I normally shift at 2500-2700 rpms (Small tach.) I have plenty of power even as I turn up a long hill in third, all I do is press the gas and it just goes.

I love when I want to get away from others and the car responds.

It was not build for racing because that is an expensive hobby which I could very much enjoy but can not afford.

My only regret is that I did not do the trany at the same time. That is being planned now (a good freeway trany.)

Other things that I did not do but would have if I was partially racing it include:
Port and polish heads.
1 5/ 8 merger with the J tubes
Dual 45s or 48s.
Another trany built for that purpose.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:43 pm 
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The first thing i did when i got the 58 was had a bad ass tranny built :lol: All the good stuff including a SAW racing axles :lol: Could you tell me why you would go with the bigger carbs??? I've been doing alot of reading and it seems like the CB044 with the 42x37's run pretty well with no work done to them. If i decide to use those heads i will have a clean up done on the ports just get them flowing better. Im still trying to figure out what combo i want to run.

On a side note, your tranny my buddy has a killer freeway flier it is bad, he has a all stock gears with a 4.12 ring and pinion with a super diff its very nice. What state are you in???


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 Post subject: why bigger?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:47 pm 
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Because I think with better carburation it would get more hp at the top. The 36s are probably a minimun for a 2165cc and some think it is too small.


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