total seal not seating and reusing/trying again
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total seal not seating and reusing/trying again
motor was run for 3 months on weekends and now its out and the top end is off for some spring upgrades as well as too inspect a ring seating issue.
well i was right my total seal gapless 2nd ring is still brown which tells me its been sliding up and down and doing nothing.well this is one thing i overlooked during assembley was cylinder hone/grit.i measured piston too cylinder clearance and all the ring gaps but installed the pistons/rings into a stock cima barrle ,no prep !!!
after taking too total seal they told me no problem just give the barrels 4-6 passes with a 240 grit three finger hone and reuse all rings.
whats everones thought on this ? are the rings ok too try again?or should i toss the whole set and by a new set of any brand? cima/dykes etc? and go again?
any thoughts ??
now i'm ring shy
well i was right my total seal gapless 2nd ring is still brown which tells me its been sliding up and down and doing nothing.well this is one thing i overlooked during assembley was cylinder hone/grit.i measured piston too cylinder clearance and all the ring gaps but installed the pistons/rings into a stock cima barrle ,no prep !!!
after taking too total seal they told me no problem just give the barrels 4-6 passes with a 240 grit three finger hone and reuse all rings.
whats everones thought on this ? are the rings ok too try again?or should i toss the whole set and by a new set of any brand? cima/dykes etc? and go again?
any thoughts ??
now i'm ring shy
Last edited by jim martin on Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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It seems to make sense that you could re-use them with freshly honed cylinders. The rough surface will break them in. Did you see the link I posted on the CLF about how to break-in your rings? Here it is:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
A new rough surface and this procedure should do the trick.
I've got an engine that suffered the same problem. I'll be doing both to it.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
A new rough surface and this procedure should do the trick.
I've got an engine that suffered the same problem. I'll be doing both to it.
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yes bruce i read the article ,i could do this now as my cam is well broken in at this point.
break in was on a test stand-25 min at 2500 rpm /oil dumped
another 25 min at 2500 rpm / oil dumped
engine into car ,ran it worked on idle ant timing and drove out too canadian clasic weekend at coquitlam -which was a little city and alot of highway was on and off throttle all the time.
should have been ok
break in was on a test stand-25 min at 2500 rpm /oil dumped
another 25 min at 2500 rpm / oil dumped
engine into car ,ran it worked on idle ant timing and drove out too canadian clasic weekend at coquitlam -which was a little city and alot of highway was on and off throttle all the time.
should have been ok
- Tom Simon
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Hey Bruce, that is a good link. The guy put into words what a lot of guys have been doing for many years, break it in with a load on it! He does a great job of expalining why he thinks that to be a good method.
Without giving too much away, I was crewing for a friend in Phoenix. We had the some issues and evidence that ponted to a ring seating probelm. That information from that link was rattling around in the back of my head while trouble shooting the thing... I suspect the 3-4 rings never seated... I believe my friend is going to try the hone-and-go approach as well. You should be reading about the whole experience in an upcoming issue of VW Trends.
...So this begs the question, "anyone ever heard of the Bonaime (scouring powder) ring seating method?"
Without giving too much away, I was crewing for a friend in Phoenix. We had the some issues and evidence that ponted to a ring seating probelm. That information from that link was rattling around in the back of my head while trouble shooting the thing... I suspect the 3-4 rings never seated... I believe my friend is going to try the hone-and-go approach as well. You should be reading about the whole experience in an upcoming issue of VW Trends.
...So this begs the question, "anyone ever heard of the Bonaime (scouring powder) ring seating method?"
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tom what type of rings was your friend using?
-total seal tells me too break in there rings you need HEAT AND LOAD
and should take no more than a few hours.
i will have too measure across the rings as too get a idea of tension/demension ,i see that the total seal ring when i place it overtop the original 2nd ring is a fair amount smaller.not sure if this has any effect
-total seal tells me too break in there rings you need HEAT AND LOAD
and should take no more than a few hours.
i will have too measure across the rings as too get a idea of tension/demension ,i see that the total seal ring when i place it overtop the original 2nd ring is a fair amount smaller.not sure if this has any effect
- Honda's Killer
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- Stripped66
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- Tom Simon
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Yes, but do you think its applicable to engines with convential valvetrains(e.g. not roller rockers, etc.)? If the window to break in the rings really well is the first 20 minutes, and the majority of us VW guys use the first 20 minutes breaking in the cam/lifters, then we're losing a good ring seat and potential power, right?
Thanks,
Andy
Thanks,
Andy
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From everything I have heard, this is one of the folk lore stories that won't die. I heard that it was Catapiller diesel that started it and shortly thereafter, tried to stop it as it ruins all bearing and friction surfaces in the motor. From what I understand, the story was way easier to start than to stop (evidenced by people still spreading the story). It sounds so logical and you want it to work so you believe it. I heard it from my father who then tried it in a 64 beetle. The motor was totally destroyed within 5000 miles. In those days, there were no cam bearings so the crank, block, valve guides, cam and followers were all shot. In this case it didn't fix the ring seal problem either but when we tore the motor down, it turned out to have the standard size rings in an oversized barrel. From painful experience I have learned that very few "cure in a can" approaches work and there is no substitute to doing a careful quality job in the first place. If it doesn't work, go back and find out what you did wrong. Given how much time we spend adding oil filters and changing the oil regularly, dumping an abrasive into your motor sounds a bit like sabotage.Tom Notch wrote:Yup, old, old, old trick told to me by my dad.
Tom Simon wrote: ...So this begs the question, "anyone ever heard of the Bonaime (scouring powder) ring seating method?"
A quick google search turned up a fair number of "I heard that it works" and a couple of "Don't listen to them" sites.
I know I learned my lesson and will not try it again.
Just my $.02....
Brian