Webber 44 IDF idle circuit??

george brown · Post by **george brown** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:26 pm

Weber IDF floats have two tabs that limit their travel - one for up, and one for down - the up one contacts the float needle (for "top" measurement), the other one limits the downward travel ("drop" measurement). The float should be 10mm to 11mm from the top of the carb when you hold the top so the float is pointing down AND the the spring loaded ball in the float needle is not compressed. The top of the float should also be parallel with the carb top. You can bend the tabs a tiny bit at a time to recheck the setting. To remove the float tap out its retaining pin from the non-slotted boss end toward the boss with the slot in it; be careful and don't break a float mounting boss. Reinstall the pin from the slotted side and line it up with the other boss hole carefully by feel before you tap it home.

The "top" setting is most important; try to get them the same on both carbs. Factory says set the "top" level with the gasket removed (which means you have to take off the float to remove the gasket) but it's so thin it won't make any real difference.

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:27 pm

Try this link for tuning tips.......

http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/i ... ntrols.htm

drkoontz · Post by **drkoontz** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:28 pm

1969bluebug wrote:I never adjusted the floats before can you give me a link or a detailed explanation in doing this thanks.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... ight=float

Check out the above link, This should help

1969bluebug · Post by **1969bluebug** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:14 pm

great links thanks alot

GhiaMonster · Post by **GhiaMonster** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:47 pm

As Jeff Kyle suggested (and I didn't notice being checked), if you get up
to say 40-50 in third and give steady gas, it misses and stumbles? Quick
check (at least on a Ghia, don't know about clearance in a Bug), is to
remove the idle jets. They're on the outside flanking the float bowl.
Unscrew and pull them out. Watch out 'cause there's an o-ring that likes
to either stay with the plug or just jump away from you!

The jet just inserts into the plug. Pull it out and either look at the small end.
You may find some crap in one of them. If not, turn it around and look through
the big end toward a light. You should see a nice round point of light. If
not, that's your problem.

It doesn't take much to make dual carbs sound and run crappy!

I may try the air cleaner switch, because I've got dual fuel filters and I STILL
get clogs once in awhile, but one the same carb every time.
Inless there's something in the carb (6 months since rebuild) falling apart?

Bugzlife · Post by **Bugzlife** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:25 am

I got same problem with 2 new 44idf Webbers, one side likes 60 Idels the other side like 50 idles jets, this is to make the little ball on the Unisyn the same, before any other adjustment is made, of course I do the (turn in out procedure on the 4 screws), and make the linkage as close to equel as possible with that "Bugcrap" linkage I have.

Redline instructions are good.

george brown · Post by **george brown** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:41 am

Bugzlife, if you need different idle jets for R/L carbs something is wrong; check your idle air bypass screw settings for fully closed on both carbs.

drkoontz · Post by **drkoontz** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:47 am

Does anyone use the idle air bypass screws to do fine tuning between carb barrels (same carb), or do you always leave them fully closed (seated) ?

george brown · Post by **george brown** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:59 am

I start with them all closed, then use them to equalize the individual throats if necessary.

Bugzlife · Post by **Bugzlife** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:25 pm

George thanks for tip, all are set seated and problem occurs still. I may mess with them in future to run same jets?

On one carb if you put your hand over stack the sucker kills motor right away, the other side it doesn't, got to be getting air from some where?
New gaskets all around, I even sprayed carb cleaner on the gaskets while running to see if there was a leak too. It's the carbs. Something wrong with them, both are lefts as they don't make right sides any more.

Can a choke cause this problem? both of mine were removed and blocked off with the webber block off plates.

1969bluebug · Post by **1969bluebug** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:54 pm

Bugzlife wrote: Can a choke cause this problem? both of mine were removed and blocked off with the webber block off plates.

I have mine gone too, and that is not the problem with them being off.

As you said u feel one pulling harder. So the one side is not leaking and the other is. Sometimes you cant tell with carb cleaner, or water etc. I have had problems with mine since I have had them too.

Basically they are all seated, the air bypass screws and the carbs are not level with each other, then you can use them to level them off.

Make sure one side is inn sync with the other, then do the other side.
You seem to have the same problem as me with one side always being off.

I havent adjusted my float, But i have found my throttle stop(idle speed screws to be off). If ur butterflies say are not closing, and you swear there is no leak( just like me) then pull up on your throttle on that carb that seems to be moving less air. For me that was just it. Basically it would sit on the idle screw but my butterflies would not close. I think its due to the spring so I am going to replace it. As I held it close it was almost level with the other side, so maybe thats ur problem too. I was able to get some springs from sears hardware and I am just going to double it up on that side.

Make sure you do it with the linkage off since mine was also hanging them both up at different points since one side was too tight.. good luck with ur carbs

Greg Ward · Post by **Greg Ward** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:31 pm

I honestly don't believe this beginning part needs you to worry at all about the float level.

You are describing
1. a problem with 1,2 side idle mixture screws doing nothing.

2. 45-5000rpm stumble.

Forget 2 until you fix 1.

And all I am saying is there is no way you can begin to sync the carb with any other tool until you have idle speed screws EXACTLY the same amount of turns each side and then go from there as I suggested.

Most other guys dont seem to have seen that you have 3,4 side idle speed screw TOTALLY closed, this shouldn't be at all.

That is why I said disconnect the linkage arms and fix this first, then see where you are up to.

drkoontz · Post by **drkoontz** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:19 pm

Greg Ward wrote:I honestly don't believe this beginning part needs you to worry at all about the float level.

You are describing
1. a problem with 1,2 side idle mixture screws doing nothing.

2. 45-5000rpm stumble.

Forget 2 until you fix 1.

And all I am saying is there is no way you can begin to sync the carb with any other tool until you have idle speed screws EXACTLY the same amount of turns each side and then go from there as I suggested.

Most other guys dont seem to have seen that you have 3,4 side idle speed screw TOTALLY closed, this shouldn't be at all.

That is why I said disconnect the linkage arms and fix this first, then see where you are up to.

Greg , I think you have hit the nail on the head here.

It is real easy to get mixed up on the terminology on these Weber's.

idle mixture screws

idle speed screw

With the linkage disconnected, couldn't he use a carb sync tool to get both
idle speed screw to the correct adjustment?

Greg Ward · Post by **Greg Ward** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:30 pm

Exactly, terminology is very important , but I am sure he is describing it correctly.

I just have a very set procedure that I've used for 12yrs and it seems to agree with everything I have ever read.

However, the sync tool part you describe I always perform as the very last step.

So it goes (very simplified) and I preface this by saying it is assumed that all those pesky ridiculous idle bypass screws that everyone is tempted to fiddle with are all closed shut.
Talk to any Weber dealer in any country and they will tell you it is the biggest cause of problems with Vw guys with Webers.....

I have fiddled with them myself, but only with a proper motorcycle manometer (4 gauge vacuum tool) to see what happened. The minute difference that these make is of no use to anybody IMO. You will have people say that they had to use them, but nearly always that is because there is something else wrong with the carb.
I have had 8 sets of Webers and never had to worry about them, just remember if you do open them to get the carb to work at your sea level, wait till you climb 4000ft into the mountains and see how well the car runs, this is one of the main reasons not to touch them.

1. Disconnect linkage.
2. Turn idle speed screws all the way out until the throttle stops don't touch, then back in to 1 turn as a start.
3. Turn idle mixture screw on #1 cyl out till it runs rough, in until the fastest running point (lean best running point)
4. Repeat on remaining cyls.
5. Connect linkages, make sure theyopen at the exact same time.
6. Make sure idle speed is where you want it (mine I want at 1200rpm) but making sure both idle speed screws are adjusted equally.
7. Then use the sync tool to check how much each side carb is pulling.
Always bring the high carb level down to the low carb level, you can do this by minutely moving each side idle speed screw until they are both equal, but don't be tempted to just wind out the idle screw on the carb with the low airspeed reading so it matches the carb with the high airspeed reading.......

1969bluebug · Post by **1969bluebug** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:39 pm

thanks for your reply..
I will do this on Sat and get back to everyone