JS Safeguard- Knock retard system

danielzink · Post by **danielzink** » Wed May 29, 2002 5:23 pm

one of my final issues is mounting.
I have the MSD box and the FI computer mounted on the package tray behind the rear seat.
I'd like to mount the J&S there also.
If I'm going to use the unit with the MAP sensor...it seems like a long way to run a vacuum line.

Dan

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[email protected]

http://users.aol.com/my65notch/index.htm

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Wed May 29, 2002 5:28 pm

whatever, that's where mine is! I'll take a pic of the sweet setup; Safeguard, Mallory 2-Step, firing a Jacob's coil.

it's milliseconds for the signal to equilize, don't worry about it.

john
Aircooled.Net Inc.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by [email protected]:
one of my final issues is mounting.
I have the MSD box and the FI computer mounted on the package tray behind the rear seat.
I'd like to mount the J&S there also.
If I'm going to use the unit with the MAP sensor...it seems like a long way to run a vacuum line.

Dan

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

danielzink · Post by **danielzink** » Wed May 29, 2002 5:39 pm

John,

how are you running the vacuum line ?
Did you drill a hole in the firewall ?
I was thinking about looping the line through the heater duct back inside the car to the box (that's where I started worrying about the length of the line)

Dan

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[email protected]

http://users.aol.com/my65notch/index.htm

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Wed May 29, 2002 7:32 pm

I have 2 holes in the firewall.

1 is the coil wire firewall feed.

The second is the vac hose, and

ign +
knock sensor trigger wire (blue)
Mallory Distributor wires, brown (ground), trigger (green), and hot (red).

I chose to run the full wireset to behind the rear seat, all my wiring is behind the rear seat (I used a $4 junction block from Radio Shack for all connections). This makes all my hot wires clean and easy to trace, with no hard wired soldering (just loosen a screw, and move stuff around). it also means in the engine compartment I have a mallory female connector to plug into my distributor, for fast disconnects in case of any engine R&R, just plug and play.

all this routes thru a 5/8" hole drilled in the firewall, and the grommet brings it down to 1/2", which is perfect for the wires and vac hose to pass thru.

I'm usually in too much of a hurry to make these things "show wiring" quality (like Tom H), but they are functional and get the job done.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

[This message has been edited by JohnConnolly (edited 05-29-2002).]

Shad Laws · Post by **Shad Laws** » Wed May 29, 2002 9:10 pm

Hello-

One idea: if you are running a wiring harness for the safeguard with a split-loom or something around it, you can run your MAP line inside the harness. My Autronic computer has the MAP sensor in the box itself. Inside the insulated harness sheath I fed through a vacuum line. So, at the computer end, there's just this little tube that comes out of the harness with the rest of the wires to the box

. The path of the vacuum line is already made by the harness and it's well-protected from being cut. Just a thought... dunno how it'd work for you.

Take care,

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Shad Laws
LN Engineering
http://www.lnengineering.com

danielzink · Post by **danielzink** » Thu May 30, 2002 4:07 am

Shad,
did you make a hole in the firewall also ?
If not - how long is the run of vacuum line ?
and where did you route it ?

Thanks, Dan

Shad Laws · Post by **Shad Laws** » Thu May 30, 2002 12:33 pm

Hello-

did you make a hole in the firewall also ?
If not - how long is the run of vacuum line ?
and where did you route it ?

My car is a '72 T3 Fastback, which came with factory EFI. In the place where the original computer was is my Jacob's box - right in the path of cold air to keep from cooking. Just under the hinges of my rear trunk on the left is the Autronic computer, mounted on rubber isolation blocks with a pair of computer cooling fans. I decided to keep this very expensive item away from the weather, even though I did disassemble it and weatherproof it myself

.

Anyway, the factory had a big hole for the stock FI harness on the left from the engine bay into the rear fender area where the factory computer was. I enlarged this hole. Through this hole, I fed the Jacobs harness and the Autronic harness. I took the factory access plate and cut a notch in the forward upper corner to allow the Autronic harness to fit through there. It looks pretty slick... almost like it's supposed to be that way

.

Take care,

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Shad Laws
LN Engineering
http://www.lnengineering.com

thinger · Post by **thinger** » Thu May 30, 2002 11:35 pm

Does the SafeGuard allow you to set the about of retard when it senses knock? I'm a little unclear about this. In other words, can you set the thing to retard the timing by 2 degrees when it senses knock and then leave it there? What if conditions change? Does it keep advancing the timing to see where the knock point is and then retard it from there?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu May 30, 2002 11:37 pm

It constantly retards, even at different RPM, whenever it senses knock..it has LEDs that light up when it is retarding, so the amount of retard can be seen right there..

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

danielzink · Post by **danielzink** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:04 pm

Well...........I finally got this mess up and running.

Seems to make the the J&S work with the MSD system - you need an MSD part#8509 to convert the MSD signal to something that the J&S can understand.

Anyhow - it runs.

But - when I start the car -run it up to -say- 2000rpm- even with the sensitivity set to max - I'm not getting any light that says it's hearing knock.

If I tap on the sensor with a screwdriver I can get a dim glow and it'll cut out - so I know it's working.

Is my engine that quiet ?

Also - as per J. Pizzuto from J&S - switch 6 is set down so the unit will enable when vacuum drops below 15 inches.

On that same note - I've emailed J&S (John Pizzuto)about 10 times to figure out the 8509 adapter and also wiring suggestions and I have to say - his level of support has been great. His answers come back in a timely manner and he's always willing to help.

Anyhow - this has all been done in the driveway. I haven't had a chance to run the car on the road yet.

Dan

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[email protected]

http://users.aol.com/my65notch/index.htm

BergRace · Post by **BergRace** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:13 pm

Try advancing the timing at somewhere between 2-3000 and then see if it detects it!

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P.J.Berg.

ANT · Post by **ANT** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:38 pm

Ted Harbit has been using this knock system on his "ancient" twin turbo bullet nose Studebaker drag race car for several years now and kicks everyone's dairy-air.
http://stude.com/Ted/

It runs in the 10's pretty good for a 50 plus year old heap with a teeny antiquated 289" engine, huh?

Stude V8's are similar in a couple of ways to VW engines, solid lifters, oil relief plunger system, selective shim crank endplay...they also designed a flat 4 for an aborted small car of the early 60's. Put *that* in your crack pipe and snort it.
-ANT

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 7:32 pm

The Stude is awesome.
Thanks for the link!

Shad Laws · Post by **Shad Laws** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:56 pm

Hello-

Seems to make the the J&S work with the MSD system - you need an MSD part#8509 to convert the MSD signal to something that the J&S can understand.

Ack, just as I feared in the e-mail I sent you - it does give out a hall-effect signal. D'oh! I'm glad you found the right bits to make it work out, though!

But - when I start the car -run it up to -say- 2000rpm- even with the sensitivity set to max - I'm not getting any light that says it's hearing knock.

Try redlining it. The noise is "louder" to the sensor at higher rpms.

If I tap on the sensor with a screwdriver I can get a dim glow and it'll cut out - so I know it's working.

Groovy!

Also - as per J. Pizzuto from J&S - switch 6 is set down so the unit will enable when vacuum drops below 15 inches.

If you're still in the driveway, this will also contribute to the no-retard thing. Disconnect the manifold pressure line to the Safeguard and give it atmospheric pressure. This will force the unit on. Then set sensitivity while slowly revving from idle to redline and back.

Take care,

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Shad Laws
LN Engineering http://www.lnengineering.com

[This message has been edited by Shad Laws (edited 07-02-2002).]

Stripped66 · Post by **Stripped66** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:27 am

I have a question about the Safeguard that I don't think was asked yet (didn't see it...maybe I missed it):
from the explanation, it appears that the Safeguard can retard the timing to each cyclinder by delaying when the coil discharges (since it connects inline with the points circuit to the coil). If this is the case, then isn't the Safeguard ultimately limited by the angular sweep of the rotor across the terminal for any particular cylinder? How many degrees of rotation is the rotor in contact with the terminal? For example, if you advanced the timing to 60 degrees, the Safeguard could not retard back to 30 degrees...the rotor would be nowhere near that cylinder's terminal on the dizzy cap. So, unless my understanding of this is incorrect, what is the greatest amount of retard the Safeguard can offer with the VW's dizzy (rotor and cap)? Can you modify the rotor, possibly with an electrode that is wider, allowing for greater angular sweep of the rotor while in contact with the terminal?
Again, not doubting that it works, I was just wondering if there is a concern with the retarded discharge of the coil missing the rotor's circuit with the terminal...or if this is addressed in the installation instructions...