Turbo 914?

kmon · Post by **kmon** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:40 am

Hi, I just bought a 914 and was curious what would be involved with putting turbo on it. Currently it?s a 1.7. I?ve been told that a type 4 VW bus motor will ?bolt straight up?. I was wondering if I put a 2.0 with a turbo what kind of problems I would run into? What kind of engine life can I expect? How can I keep the engine running cool? Would a 2.5 turbo be a big performance improvement over a 2.0 turbo? What kind of additional problems will the larger motor create? Suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Rouser914S · Post by **Rouser914S** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 3:31 pm

Go to Raby's Aircooled Technology, get yourself a 2270cc engine, and save yourself the $$$ and grief.

Why in God's Good Name would you want to put a boat-anchor Bus engine in there? Your 1.7L, with even just a few mods, will run rings around it; trust me.

A 2.0+L Turbo and problems? In spades:

Turbo plumbing hassles (all custom/hand-made; forget any CB Performance kit, T-IV non-grata).
Carb/FI hassles (Ever lean out and fry/melt/flambe a piston/head?).
Cooling hassles (oil lines and coolers front-to-rear, and turbos don't operate in cryogenic ranges).
Engine life is measured from grenade to 'round 20K before SOMETHING needs attention (After all, you're gonna want to put your foot into it, right?).

If you're getting the impression I'm trying to talk you out-of-it, don't worry; there'll be 20 others behind me yelling, "A Turbo?! AWESOME!! GO FOR IT!!!" Problem is, either THEY won't be the ones bankrolling the project, or THEY don't have-one/want-one, and don't know what's involved. *Only Deep Pockets Apply Here* I've seen/inspected just one 914 T-IV 2L Turbo, and I actually thought, "Man, you have GOT to be kidding me?!"

Of course, you'll also hear from
the V-6/8 crowd, and
the 911 Flat-6 crowd, and
the Subaru Turbo 4/6 crowd, and
the Chrysler Turbo 4 crowd, and ...

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Rouser!

[This message has been edited by Rouser914S (edited 11-09-2001).]

kmon · Post by **kmon** » Fri Nov 09, 2001 4:00 pm

The word turbo still has a pleasant ring to me. But if I were to build a ?traditional? big bore engine, how big should I go? And what sort of things would I have to take into account. Is there a sweet spot of power vs. engine life? Thanks again for the info.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 10:27 pm

Yep, we can do it....We are currently working on a CIS TURBO set up, it wll be sweet!

"Abnormal aspiration" is not cheap, dig out the bucks and gimme a call.

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:47 pm

I've seen four 914 turbos. Two 2.0s, two 1.8s. No 1.7s yet.

One 2.0 used a single side-draft Weber in a pull-through configuration. The other used D-jet FI with a bunch of "tweaks".

Both 1.8s used CIS. One was a pretty straightforward Miller FI setup, the other used a mix of VW-Audi-etc. parts. For instance, the fuel distributor was from a 5-cylinder (Audi? Volvo?) and the fifth port was used for under-boost enrichment. Full closed-loop operation, too. It was pretty gnarly.

You can see the second car on this page: http://www.pelicanparts.com/motorcity/d ... ay_AM.html .

You can see the first one (mistakenly labeled a 1.7) here: http://www.pelicanparts.com/motorcity/d ... rbo1_7.jpg

I don't have pics of either of the 2.0s available.

--DD

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1974 VW-Porsche 914; 2.0 liter Type IV motor

Ed Morrow · Post by **Ed Morrow** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:51 pm

Hey! I know that second car. I used parts from a variety of cars but nothing from Volvo. The fuel distributor and all the fuel system components except some lines and the pump are from a 5 cyl.'88 VW Quantum with CIS-E. The air filter housing is from a Saab 9000, sits in the corner where the relay board was and is connected to a modified sensor plate housing by a section of A3 Jetta intake boot. The turbo is off a 2000 Passat 1.8T and is connected to an intercooler (Audi TT) and then the CIS two stage throttle body by a variety of Audi, Saab and VW boots and pipes. The intake manifolds and center section are from a Holly Weber carb set-up. The manifolds were modified to accept the CIS injectors. The CIS throttle body bolts right up to the center section which was drilled and tapped to take two cold start valves. Exhaust passes through the heater boxes to a collector and up to the turbo. Boost is regulated and adjustable by the digital cockpit gauge. The throttle body is modified so the full throttle enrichment/open loop switching for the CIS works as soon as the secondary begins to open. A tandem switch opens the second cold start valve which is connected to the injector line for the 5th cyl. Using a custom built distributor I retained the Bosch electronic ignition that was integrated into the CIS electronics harness. The spare tire well has the fuel pump, accumulator, filter, an oil cooler and the battery. The front of the rear trunk has a variety of relays, the ignition and FI electronics and the turbo coolant reservoir (A3). The turbo coolant is circulated by an electric pump (B4-VR6) and passes through a small radiator that was once the transmission cooler loop in an Audi radiator.

It ran well "right out of the box" with no surprises. Starts good hot or cold, very smooth on the low end and surprising power when you stomp on it. I usually set boost at 6-8 pounds although it was unregulated and went much higher on some early road tests.

After more than 2K miles in the past two month the only problem has been a failed intake boot that was a used part to start with. I think it has exceeded the expectations of everyone who have driven or ridden in it. There are a couple of improvements to regulating the timing, boost and mixture I plan to make over the winter.

Would I do it a again? Maybe. Would I tell someone else build one? That depends a lot on the persons abilities and resources. There is no kit, no list of parts. You'll need a good understanding of all engine systems to know what will and what will not work. You'll have to know where to source the parts that will work. You'll need to design and fabricate dozens of parts that don't yet exist and will be unique to your vehicle. And when you need help there is not a lot of people who have done it you can turn to. It might seem like something cool to do but go in with your eyes wide open or you will quickly get discouraged.

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'72 914 1.7
'74 914 1.8

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:20 pm

For MOST applications, a 2270 normally aspirated engine is more than enough to fulfill, the HP desire for a 914...Turbo is cool, but risky, especially in a TIV engine.One goof in the system can make the engine look like 3 mile island!

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

kmon · Post by **kmon** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 6:31 pm

For those of you who have already built a VW turbo motor, what parts did you use in it? Do you go all out with a turbo cam, turbo distributor, turbo carbs., etc. Was your cam hydraulic? What grind was it? What?s better for turbo motor, FI or turbo carbs.? Thanks for all the info.

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 7:45 pm

I haven't built a Turbo VW, but I have opinions on them, mostly from doing a lot of reading.

A "turbo cam" is a pretty mild cam, similar to the stock Type IV cam, but often with more lift.

Solid would be my preference over hydraulic for a lot of reasons that have been gone over many many times in the past.

Unless you want to do what Ed did, and custom-make your own distributor (out of a couple of other distributors--very nice work too, like the whole rest of that car!!) you should stick to one of the stock distributors. A vacuum-assisted one can help retard the timing when you're under boost, which may come in handy depending on your exact setup.

FI is better for anything and everything, IMHO. Except for people who can't afford the FI, or the time it takes to properly set up and/or tune the FI. May EFI setups will allow you to control the ignition as well, which is a very good thing.

The pull-through carb setup is simple, but it doesn't get the mixture quite "right" most of the time. A good aftermarket EFI can get the mixture "right" pretty much all of the time. A lean mixture can lead very quickly to big holes in expensive parts... So I think EFI is the way to go.

--DD

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1974 VW-Porsche 914; 2.0 liter Type IV motor

newestone · Post by **newestone** » Sun Nov 18, 2001 8:43 am

does anyone know what size turbo any of the above cars were using, just wanted to know.
Thanks

Evill Ed · Post by **Evill Ed** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:46 pm

I have the 1.7L CIS set up. I was using a K26 unit from a Porsche 924. I have since moved up to a K26 from a 944. This unit builds boost at a higher rpm (3000) than the 924 unit (2500). I use my car mostly on the track, so the midrange to top end works better for me. On the street, it can be a little sluggish.

The 1.8L VW / Audi units, like the other Ed used on his 1.8L, are a good match for the type 4. They build boost quickly from lower revs. The 2 other 914's with 2L, used turbos from Chryslers. These also work well.

Hope this helps.

Ed

BTW- I am currently assembling a 2.0L long block for my 914 as we speak.

newestone · Post by **newestone** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:22 pm

do you know what rmp range the chrysler turbo's build boost, it seems they would be easier to get from a pick a part compared to the newer turbos.
Thanks

Dave_Darling · Post by **Dave_Darling** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 11:44 pm

Neither Ed nor Ed have replied yet, so I'll put in what they've told me about their turbos.

The high-tech CIS turbo 1.8 uses the turbo from a VW 1.8T motor.

The less-high-tech CIS turbo 1.7 (might be a 1910cc?) motor uses a turbo from a 924 Turbo.

On the two 2.0 motors I do not recall what the turbos came from. One was from a junk yard, one was new. The JY one was installed and ran and ran; the new turbocharger had to be taken back to the shop several times because of problems interior to the turbocharger. DOH!

--DD

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1974 VW-Porsche 914; 2.0 liter Type IV motor

914rrr · Post by **914rrr** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:13 pm

I recently purchased a sweeeet '73 914 2.0 with a turbo. It looks bone stock from the outside with the exception of a small "turbo" badge on the rear panel.

I'm still investigating all the features and history of this car, but here's what I know so far. It still has the stock FI installed. The turbo started out as a kit built specifically for 914's ( by Champion Manufacturing, I think they did Corvair mods mainly). Later an intercooler was added as well as a cockpit adjustable boost controller, a TracII ignition/ turbo retard system from J&S Electronics, a Permatune module and water injection. The test drive sold me on the potential of this puppy. When it's cold and the boost comes on around @4000 rpm, it flat ROCKS! I've owned about 15 914's prior and none of them kicked like this one!

There does seem to be some issue with it when it gets warmed up, as it starts to miss intermittantly at a steady crusing rpm (2,000 to 3,000rpm). I think the boost control is cracked or broken as it seems to be sucking air, possibly leaning it out or not allowing the wastegate to open.

BTW, anybody know how to contact R.P.M. Custom & High Performance in Winston Salem NC ? The phone number I have is no good. They appear to have done most of the later developement work on this car.

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914rrr · Post by **914rrr** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 3:02 am

Found a great air cooled DIY turbo site http://www.dune-buggy.com/turbo/turbo.htm