Electromotive?????

CA. 73 1.7 · Post by **CA. 73 1.7** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:36 pm

Has anybody installed an Electromotive system in thier 914? What part's did you use? Hows the performance compared to the stock D-jet? What was the cost? What does that cloud overthere look like? I would like any information i can get as i am considering the upgrade. thanks

speedy57tub · Post by **speedy57tub** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:53 pm

I am also interested in this post. please do post some information.
Thanks,
speedy57tub

[This message has been edited by speedy57tub (edited 07-02-2002).]

Mueller · Post by **Mueller** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:01 pm

Upgrade? For a stock motor or even a mild performance motor, the Electromotive is more bragging rights that you have money to burn than an upgrade.

The newest Electromotive TEC 3 starts at about $1800.00 and that is without the trigger wheel and harness.

Figure $2200 to $2500 for a 5 hp gain on a stock motor

http://www.siastuning.com/SiastuningTec3OrderForm.xls

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:54 pm

I use their systems a bit on my Upright engines, but never a stock cooling system, that might creat a challenge..

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:41 am

I have gined 10 power boost on my dyno with their cheapest system after it was optimized...I have used the 911 systems as well, but never dynoed one, the power difference was felt in the seat..

Mueller · Post by **Mueller** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:53 am

Hey Jake,

I'm not saying they don't work, it's just for $$$$, they are not worth it on a stock Type IV engine.

I have heard that the ignition only unit works very well, but still, it's close to $500. I'd love to have this setup, but it's hard to justify it right now.

pbanders · Post by **pbanders** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:28 pm

Jake, assuming it's an apples-to-apples comparison on a stock motor between stock D-Jet or L-Jet to Electromotive (i.e. identical VE curves), then the power increase has to come from either improved ignition or fuel delivery. What would you attribute the 10 HP increase to?

Brad Anders

Mueller · Post by **Mueller** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:14 pm

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/faq.html

Email and ask for a catalog. It's not rocket science, it is designed for the do-it-yourself type person who is willing to read and do some research. Any compentent shop that can read english should be able to install and tune one of these.

A dyno will be needed to fine tune it.
A chassis dyno will be the best choice.

Your stock injectors can be used as well as your stock intake system. A new TPS plus a few other sensors will be needed.

Yes, the Elec. unit can adjust while driving.
(O2 sensor is for that)

CA. 73 1.7 · Post by **CA. 73 1.7** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 11:09 pm

Thanks for all the info. I would still like to know a propper list of items for a type 4 install. I think it would be easier to use a 120 tooth gear in the dist. than try to do a 60 tooth in the fan. How easy is this system to set up and tune? what other options are out there that are of good quality. I am looking for good performance and to be able to pass smog if/when CARB decides to mandate smog on my 73 again. So how easy (details) is it to set up, modify, and tune. Does electromotive adjust itself while driving (like a modern car) or are there systems that do? Do i need to change my injectors and intake system? IF you have info that you think may help please post or send me an e-mail please. [email protected] thank you all for your time and brain cells.

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:53 am

This will not work with D-jet. Your D-jet triggers from the distributor, so you will have to be triggering from the crank. D-jet throttle valve switch (which is not a TPS) will have to remain. L-jet should be able to work. Ray

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:06 am

After reading a bit more on their site, its interesting....the power claims are very similar to knology systems. I have used those and they are excellent...but must be kept very clean on installation. They use an inductive coil with individual CDI units inline to each plug as amplifiers. The whole system is dependant upon incredibly low resistance on plugs, specially wound 10mm wires with individual ground bundles and a clean power feed. European car got about 5% actual increase on a 16 valve sirrocco....and as Jake put it (albeit about electromotive) ...a huge seat of the pants throttle response feel. Most people have problems with the knology system only because of sloppy installation. You might check it out. Itworks with any injection and is much cheaper. It is identical to what ford used on a few vehicles in the mid 90's. Ray

Mueller · Post by **Mueller** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 9:17 am

Ray said:
This will not work with D-jet...

He knows he'd have to use the crankfire method, so no big deal about it being a D-Jet or L-Jet, you just remove the dizzy from either systems. All he is worried about is the main induction system, which he can keep.
The stock injectors will work as well since low impedance injectors work with the electromotive.

CA. 73 1.7 · Post by **CA. 73 1.7** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:30 pm

thank you for your help so far. I did check out the site and read the install book. It appears that in order to use this with my currens low impediance injectors that i would have to fire 2 at the same time, like it does now. are there injectors i can use to fire only one at a time giving me better control of the mixture. Is there a package for a type 4 motor? Perhaps one that uses the distributers guts (minus the advance) to hold the triger wheel. I cant replace my fan with a scat pulley. I am working on a one-off exhaust that would be simular to a dual ehxast v8 with a balancer tube instead of a colector/merger. Can the standard tec3 electromotive handle 2 O2 sensors, or would i need a special unit? If a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound? I think thats all so far. Mueller do you work for electromotive or do you have one installed?
Thank you all again for the assistance.

Mueller · Post by **Mueller** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:17 pm

i don't work for Electromotive, nor do I have one....

I have one of these installed on my 914: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

It will do about 75% of what the Elec. setup does for fuel only. So far the MS (MegaSquirt) only controls fuel. Hopefully that will change in the near future.

I truely belive the MS will perform just as well as the electromotive unit for 90% or more of the typical installations.

So far there is no bolt-in kit for the MS.
(i hope to see that change as well)
everything has to be built, but it really is easy once you learn and study it for a bit.

Tons of support also.

The MS is perfect for the average VW or 914 home mechanic.

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:15 am

Mueller. Cool. Using the crankfire system should work with D-jet. I think I also may have mis-read your last post. Do you still need to remove the distributor with crankfire? How come ? The only remaining quesion would be that if you do remove the distributor with D-jet...how will you trigger the injection? It is triggered from two pairs of contacts contained in the distributor. Unless you have found an alternate method of triggering....which would be very cool to know as well. Thanks Ray