If you want to keep the radiator in the back, you need a way to scoop cool air up from under the car and directed into the radiator. Then ALL the hot air has to exit from the engine bay. Some sort of sealed boxed on the deck lid. Even then, you'll have weird speeds where it gets hot for odd reasons.
Having the car low won't effect running pipes under it. You can tuck them up in the channel for the body bolts. Or you can run them under the running boards.
EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
ahh so pulling air from the decklid area through the radiator and out under the car isn't going to work without the fan running constant? just not enough direct flow?
Thank you for your time and input! might have to start looking into the alternatives.
Thank you for your time and input! might have to start looking into the alternatives.
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petew
- Posts: 3920
- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:05 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
If anything, you want to pull air up from UNDER the car and draw it out through the deck lid. Not idea, but it could work I guess. The other thing to take into consideration with your setup is this, "how will you easily fill the radiator?".
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
I have the cap next to the upper inlet at the highest point.
Going to see how it does with the lid off now with the expectation of needing to either duct air to the rad or move it
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Got my tires mounted and the wheels i acquired were different colors. Didn't have any black paint so they are bronze now.
would love to get a set widened someday or change to 5 lug but these'll do for now
[/url]
Going to see how it does with the lid off now with the expectation of needing to either duct air to the rad or move it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Got my tires mounted and the wheels i acquired were different colors. Didn't have any black paint so they are bronze now.
would love to get a set widened someday or change to 5 lug but these'll do for now
[/url]
Last edited by joelzy on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Still at it... working to finish this thing any time i get a couple hours of free time.
Still not sure on how well it'll cool with the current radiator setup but we're about to find out. I've seen a few that were successful but i am also fully aware that i might be moving it as soon as i attempt to put a decklid on. We'll see, either way, the cooling system is installed and i just need to do a little wiring before test driving.
Also, when considering a decklid i've been thinking about cowling the radiator to optimize airflow coming across it. I read that funneling the cowl toward the radiator is actually counter productive but might end up doing so on the backside for the fan.
Started toying with ideas for shrouding the topside
either would be built to seal up to the standoff decklid for maximum airflow scoopage.
Also still keeping petew's input in mind that i might need to pull air in the opposite direction from under the car, through the car or even some sort of naca duct if needbe. I have some ideas if that ends up needing to happen and just got a tig welder so once i get a little better with it the possibilities will be greater and hell, who knows, i might even move to front radiator.
Still not sure on how well it'll cool with the current radiator setup but we're about to find out. I've seen a few that were successful but i am also fully aware that i might be moving it as soon as i attempt to put a decklid on. We'll see, either way, the cooling system is installed and i just need to do a little wiring before test driving.
Also, when considering a decklid i've been thinking about cowling the radiator to optimize airflow coming across it. I read that funneling the cowl toward the radiator is actually counter productive but might end up doing so on the backside for the fan.
Started toying with ideas for shrouding the topside
either would be built to seal up to the standoff decklid for maximum airflow scoopage.
Also still keeping petew's input in mind that i might need to pull air in the opposite direction from under the car, through the car or even some sort of naca duct if needbe. I have some ideas if that ends up needing to happen and just got a tig welder so once i get a little better with it the possibilities will be greater and hell, who knows, i might even move to front radiator.
Last edited by joelzy on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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panel
- Posts: 4201
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:01 am
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Header seams low ?
'65 Bus with a JDM Subaru EJ20 Turbo
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
haha yeah its the subaru factory manifold so its crazy low. once the car is drivable i'm going to put it on the ground and see how much i need to move the exhaust up.
Haven't decided if i'm going to tackle the job myself or not but i probably will. I have a muffler that is the old monza style that i'm going to try to use because it lines up with the apron notches but we'll see if that ends up being the final version or if i need more muffling.
Haven't decided if i'm going to tackle the job myself or not but i probably will. I have a muffler that is the old monza style that i'm going to try to use because it lines up with the apron notches but we'll see if that ends up being the final version or if i need more muffling.
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Ol'fogasaurus
- Posts: 17758
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
I'm not sure I would want to pull the air up from under the car and for several reasons. One being that there is a lot of heat down there even with the air deflector close out pieces. Also, the air underneath the car is just starting to transform from the more smooth area of the pan into a potentially more turbulent area where the engine and transaxle are. This is kind of like what Pete said.
I have seen side mounted radiators w/fans in sand rails and that usually didn't work out correctly, cooling wise, even with scoops added. I have also seen two radiators' w/fans tried in the same rail and that wasn't any better.
Usually what seems to work best and is the easiest is a front mounted radiator with venting in the hood and an opening for hot air exit on the back of the spare tire well. Then have tubes for the fore and aft movement of the coolant. On lowered cars this can be a problem due to height off the ground rules and road turtles smashing the tubes up or ripping them off. I'm not sure how oval tubes might work though... an interesting thought. On Bajas they sometimes get a way with it a bit more due to more room with the rear of the body cut away. I sure would try the cotton tell airflow trick before you get too far into cutting things just to see just what is going to happen as each change is made.
I like joelzy's idea of seeing what a close out would/could look like. Not sure how well it would work but it sure is an idea getter; good job joelzy. Question: would that new panel create a dead airflow area around the engine (I don't know partly because I don't know what other things are going on, how much room is available for airflow but it is something to think very seriously about)?
Lee
I have seen side mounted radiators w/fans in sand rails and that usually didn't work out correctly, cooling wise, even with scoops added. I have also seen two radiators' w/fans tried in the same rail and that wasn't any better.
Usually what seems to work best and is the easiest is a front mounted radiator with venting in the hood and an opening for hot air exit on the back of the spare tire well. Then have tubes for the fore and aft movement of the coolant. On lowered cars this can be a problem due to height off the ground rules and road turtles smashing the tubes up or ripping them off. I'm not sure how oval tubes might work though... an interesting thought. On Bajas they sometimes get a way with it a bit more due to more room with the rear of the body cut away. I sure would try the cotton tell airflow trick before you get too far into cutting things just to see just what is going to happen as each change is made.
I like joelzy's idea of seeing what a close out would/could look like. Not sure how well it would work but it sure is an idea getter; good job joelzy. Question: would that new panel create a dead airflow area around the engine (I don't know partly because I don't know what other things are going on, how much room is available for airflow but it is something to think very seriously about)?
Lee
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Thank you for the response Lee!!! exactly why I'm posting this project and i appreciate your input.
Biggest reason i don't want to go front radiator yet is that the car is pretty low, i realize there are work arounds for front mounted still but i'm just not quite there yet while there is a chance to make this work.
I guess i don't know the cotton tell airflow trick, is that a way of seeing airflow direction?
As far as the shroud goes, I'm not sure how that would work behind there which is why i figure i might need to cowl it on the backside as well. The throttle body is the only thing really close to the fan, otherwise it seems like it has room to push it past the motor.
i got the idea from a guy on superbeetlesonly who ran a radiator in the back with a v8 up front. I get that its different because he has no motor heat in the back but he is scooping air with the standoffs like i have been planning on doing.
I'm sure i'll be posting soon on here about it not cooling enough but i'm still gonna give it a shot. Just going to be super cautious with the temp gauge
Biggest reason i don't want to go front radiator yet is that the car is pretty low, i realize there are work arounds for front mounted still but i'm just not quite there yet while there is a chance to make this work.
I guess i don't know the cotton tell airflow trick, is that a way of seeing airflow direction?
As far as the shroud goes, I'm not sure how that would work behind there which is why i figure i might need to cowl it on the backside as well. The throttle body is the only thing really close to the fan, otherwise it seems like it has room to push it past the motor.
i got the idea from a guy on superbeetlesonly who ran a radiator in the back with a v8 up front. I get that its different because he has no motor heat in the back but he is scooping air with the standoffs like i have been planning on doing.
I'm sure i'll be posting soon on here about it not cooling enough but i'm still gonna give it a shot. Just going to be super cautious with the temp gauge
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Ol'fogasaurus
- Posts: 17758
- Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
The cotton tell trick is so complicated it stuns people into silence 
! Actually it is a very simple trick to do.
You lightly tape one end of some different lengths of fairly light weight cotton yarn on the area you are curious about then, as you drive or induce air over the surface you video what the cotton yarn does which should follow the air flow and tell you what is going on. The more tells you have... up to a point, should give you an idea of what is going on.
I just thought: it might even be possible to hook up a vacuum cleaner hose to the out port instead of the vacuum port then using a wide head for an even wide distribution to induce flow across a wider surface that way and not overwhelm the test. Not sure if it would work from under the car but it might be worth the try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_tunnel They talk about it here. "The direction of airflow around a model can be determined by tufts of yarn attached to the aerodynamic surfaces. The direction of airflow approaching a surface can be visualized by mounting threads in the airflow ahead of and aft of the test model. Smoke or bubbles of liquid can be introduced into the airflow upstream of the test model, and their path around the model can be photographed (see particle image velocimetry)." Probably more than you wanted to know but it is possible that one could have a "incident" in one's design and not know it.
I've seen V8 VWs before but I don't remember hearing of the radiator in the rear while the engine is up front.
Lee
! Actually it is a very simple trick to do.You lightly tape one end of some different lengths of fairly light weight cotton yarn on the area you are curious about then, as you drive or induce air over the surface you video what the cotton yarn does which should follow the air flow and tell you what is going on. The more tells you have... up to a point, should give you an idea of what is going on.
I just thought: it might even be possible to hook up a vacuum cleaner hose to the out port instead of the vacuum port then using a wide head for an even wide distribution to induce flow across a wider surface that way and not overwhelm the test. Not sure if it would work from under the car but it might be worth the try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_tunnel They talk about it here. "The direction of airflow around a model can be determined by tufts of yarn attached to the aerodynamic surfaces. The direction of airflow approaching a surface can be visualized by mounting threads in the airflow ahead of and aft of the test model. Smoke or bubbles of liquid can be introduced into the airflow upstream of the test model, and their path around the model can be photographed (see particle image velocimetry)." Probably more than you wanted to know but it is possible that one could have a "incident" in one's design and not know it.
I've seen V8 VWs before but I don't remember hearing of the radiator in the rear while the engine is up front.
Lee
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
OOOHhhhh i have seen that test before! thank you for Lee i really appreciate your help
longshot but has anyone ever utilized the heater core lines for a secondary radiator? obviously wouldn't do as much being smaller lines but could potentially help overall temp if its getting some good airflow.
longshot but has anyone ever utilized the heater core lines for a secondary radiator? obviously wouldn't do as much being smaller lines but could potentially help overall temp if its getting some good airflow.
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surfbeetle
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:20 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Just do something like this https://www.coolrydescustoms.com/oil-cooler-kits.html He's got oil coolers mounted up under the rear fenders from the bumper mounts. Maybe you can do that with a small radiator.
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joelzy
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Nice thank you surf!! I like it!surfbeetle wrote:Just do something like this https://www.coolrydescustoms.com/oil-cooler-kits.html He's got oil coolers mounted up under the rear fenders from the bumper mounts. Maybe you can do that with a small radiator.
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petew
- Posts: 3920
- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:05 pm
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
Ummm... A couple things.
1. Wherever you put a radiator, you need a proper supply of cool air. Fans should be the exception for red lights or slow traffic.
2. You really don't want to put an oil cooler (or radiator) where your back wheels can throw junk at it and make holes in it.
P.s. Porsche had their oil coolers in the front fender behind the headlight bucket... with a big stone guard.
1. Wherever you put a radiator, you need a proper supply of cool air. Fans should be the exception for red lights or slow traffic.
2. You really don't want to put an oil cooler (or radiator) where your back wheels can throw junk at it and make holes in it.
P.s. Porsche had their oil coolers in the front fender behind the headlight bucket... with a big stone guard.
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billz60vw
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:46 am
Re: EJ18 in a ‘69 standard
It works fine behind the wheels but you will need duals as one isn't enough cooling. I used two mini Cooper radiators https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1265859.jpg
I like the way you mounted the radiator and would use your first sketch with deck lid standoffs and make sure it's sealed. I think that would work good.and would have enough air scooped in while moving.
I like the way you mounted the radiator and would use your first sketch with deck lid standoffs and make sure it's sealed. I think that would work good.and would have enough air scooped in while moving.