Ol' Foggy garage seat with tool chest

General tips/tricks/tools that could be utilized on any platform.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:35 am

I haven't seen those mounts before, very cool! In all the different styles of mounts I considered, I hadn't even thought about a lowering device like that.

I had to dismiss the post style of caster for several reasons one being the post its self being so tall and the ones I could find weight carrying capacity was marginal even for 3" diameter wheels I wanted to use; e.g., something like 40# or 60#s per wheel for a total carrying capacity of 240# plus. Assuming that the designers allowed the normal under rating of 10% per wheel that would/could still be pushing things. I alone would take up the biggest part of the 240#. It wouldn't allow for a 50 MPH pass down the garage floor with me on it then running into something the box couldn't climb over.

The big problem I have is that each section (a three car garage) of concrete has deep breaks between each pad and the smaller wheels would hang up in them. The brackets are a very cool idea that I wish I had known or even thought about; they wouldn't be hard to fabricate. If I still get more twisting of the main frame (I had it almost perfect before starting the welding again but not it has racked again but maybe a spacer will work on the one pad that is the problem... we'll see) I could take off the pads and make up something like you have shown.

The big idea of the tool box is to have everything you need and not have the floor cluttered up as you work but... the taller wheels does allow for some of that eventuality (bigger parts on the floor than would fit into the tool box).

Add those lowering wheel mounts and add a couple of sway bars and .... :lol:

Thanks again for the idea.

Lee

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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:28 am

If I find a problem with this setup I am building I will post it.” (Ol’Fogasaurus)

Last night I woke up remembering something that happened many years ago that I think was in the back of my mind when I was writing the above statement. It isn’t a bad thing that happened but something to take into consideration when using “castered” style of casters.

When I was much younger, maybe back in the late ‘50s I had 2 events happen to me with castered stools of some kind… I forget what, were and why but I do remember the results. It could have been both happened on the same day or a different time or place but they did happen.

I was at someone’s place and sat down on a castered stool of some kind and was sitting or sat on the forward edge and suddenly the stool shot out to the rear from under me (I could have been sitting on it then slid it forward) and it tipped over and putting me on the floor. The other event was just the opposite and I went over on my back.

The distance between the centers of the caster pads on the long side of the box is roughly (~) 20 ½” - 21” and on the short side it is ~8 3//4” which is slightly less that the dimensions of the main part of the frame and centered (roughly) on the uprights in front and several inches in front of the off-set for the lid on the rear side.

If I were using standard non-swivel casters the wheel is centered on the pad but don’t swivel so the wheel base would remain the same (except for the castered front caster) and the loading is centered in the dimensions of the pad. But using swivel wheels with a built in caster I have a change in wheel base because the wheels are roughly and inch from the center of the pivot to the center of the axle and the load on the pad is centered there (does that make sense?).

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This shows one option to wheel base to the floor change but if you happen to slide forward the caster move an inch to the rear (and on wheels) or if you push backwards the wheel base move forward. The wheel base itself doesn’t really (unless it is like that in the picture) change but the center of loading does.

Once I get it done I will know if I need to go back and change from for castered casters to two castered and two non-castered casters.

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:23 pm

This will probably be the last post on this build for maybe a short while. I have to finish clean up, then paint and build the seat cushion for it.

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I got a couple of hours in the garage this morning and finished fitting the top support and cushion mount. The welding came pretty good so I tried something on the bottom and it spitted, splattered and skipped so it has to be something in the metal besides my not being the greatest welding in the world.

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This is how it now sits. I have machine screws holding the casters on and they are kind of thing diameter wise so I didn't try much moving around on it but it did feel good and moved smoothly. And.... wait for it.... it doesn't totter; it sits flat!

Lee

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Piledriver
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Piledriver » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:58 pm

Looks like a good height, but I'd move the wheels to outriggers front and back as seen in pics above for more stability, falling down can hurt more than just your pride...

Plus, you can add small bins/shelf along the bottom for nuts and bolts and antisneeze and perhaps the tools you are using etc in between the outriggers.

I'd have a lot of the high use tools stuck on the exterior back/sides on magnet rails.

You can fill those gaps in the concrete with flexible fiberglass reinforced grout.
It takes a pretty good beating.
If the gaps go all the way down, fill with foam weatherstrip filler rods to about an inch down, and spooge the grout on top and smooth over. Your rolling floor jacks and new mechanics scooter will like it.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Ol'fogasaurus
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:12 pm

I forgot to post the height is 17 1/2" to the base of the seat. For me it is good but a little high for the black buggy but then anything shorter I couldn't get up from :lol: .

I have thought about filling the cracks. They do go quite deep but I am not sure just how deep. They also have expansion material in them but if I keep grinding bad welds like I do the floor joints are going to get leveled up anyway :wink: .

Outriggers is something I have thought about but I will go with this until I figure out if it is stable or not. I could easily do them in the back because of the overhang for opening the lid (which is something I hadn't thought about) but in the front I am concerned that they might be in the way and those corners are still sharp. The more I think about it the better I like it.

I posted those magnetic small tool boxes and magnetic tool holder which I plan on getting before I build any folding wings. My garage is getting a bit tight with tools I have either purchased or ones I have built and my wife has noticed it (she isn't into the grinding bit either).

HF had a good sale on a bead roller just before we went to AZ for the winter and I am going to have to build a stand for it plus modify it to remove any flex and maybe add power to it. Not sure just what I am going to do. I am still thinking about bead rolling some flat stock to use for side impact, you know kind of like a small version of a guard rail you see on the freeways. Not the strongest thing but better than nothing. I'm still trying to justify a combo shear, roller and brake press. That should fill my two sides of the three car garage. :twisted:

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:15 pm

Thanks 'Pile, the more I think about it cantilevered caster mounts to the rear side of the main frame the better I like it. I had only thought about them at all four corners, this should so make the seat much more stable.

Good job!

Lee

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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:33 pm

I went up and got some 3/16" flat stock (overkill but it matched the scrap stock I was using here) to remake the rear caster mounts. I'll have to cut some corner brackets but I have the stock here for that. Thanks again for bringing that up Pile!

I'm going to take and post some silly pictures, a couple of which should not be able to happen to describe why I am going ahead an do part of Pile's suggestion. I'll post them later today as an edit to this post (I've been out removing the base and roots of an out of control bush we removed yesterday so I am currently cooling off and am pooped).

These are the pictures I was talking about. The first two are kind of silly and shouldn’t be able to happen… unless one of you pals is messing with you.

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Of the two silly pictures this is the most dangerous. If you sit towards the rear of the stool the seat could tip back shooting the cart forward( the drawers in front) putting you on your back. If you sit to the front (on the edge of the seat) of the seat the stool could shoot to the rear dropping you on the floor. This is what happened to me years ago.

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Again, shouldn’t happen but (hopefully) its not that dangerous… I think.

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This is what would happen if you scooched up towards your work. Would it be dangerous... maybe but I think it might be less likely with the rear wheels moved back some.

Pile’s suggestion of making outriggers would be the best and safest way as the wheels would be forward or to the rear of any seating position; e.g., in this case the front of the seat would be behind the pivot point of the caster. The drawback: for me at least it could be a tripping thing especially when walking wearing reading glasses like I do. My safety glasses were made with readers for close work and the optician had them put a little bit higher than I would have liked.

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This is what would happen when you are sitting then push the cart backwards. Could you over center this way... yeah… maybe and this is why I am moving the wheels towards the rear a couple of inches. The back of the seat would be more or less over the pivot point of the caster.

Lee

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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:53 pm

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I got this much done today and I may have found out why I was having so much problem with the stool being tippy. The problems seems to be a slightly rounded corner on the main frame that was so slight it didn't show even with a straight edge but did influence the one caster pad. I will have to make a shim and clamp things together a little differently this time to keep the pads aligned. Everything was level other than the slight tip to the one mounting pad.

I have a lot of fitting to do with the gussets tomorrow.

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:41 am

:roll: (sigh) The weird welding "thing" (splattering, no weld, the wire catching fire and or disappearing and a lot of smoke in the air and soot on the metal) at one corner of the bottom of the frame came back to haunt me. That and alignment but that might be an easy fix that I will try today.

If I ever did do this again, and I like the concept that I am coming up with, I would build a jig just to keep the alignment and flatness of the main frame in accord. Other than the frustrations in the one area, this has been fun build.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:15 pm

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Pretty much all done except for cleaning up, painting, getting the bolts for the caster then building the cushion. Not sure if I will tip the seat or just lift it off. I will look at hinges and stops/rubber feet when I get the fasteners.

I put it on the floor to check for tipping; e.g., being level at all four corners and it felt OK. I then put a piece of flat plate on it and sat down on it; felt comfortably good! Since I had to get 3/16 flat stock for the rear wheel mounts instead of the 1/8" (I think that is what I used for the old front and rear caster mounts but when comparing it by feel to 1/8" at the steel store it felt a bit different. Using the 3/16" allowed me to level out the mounts easier. That little bit of thickness puts the rear of the seat up just a bit by between .01 and .02 but it only shows on the level.

After putting a plate on it to sit on, rolling it around the garage floor you don't really feel the angle. One of the wheels as a hump in it so it sounds and feels somewhat like being in a old RR car on un-ground RR track but hopefully that hump and noise will wear away in time.

Moving around while sitting down does feel different with the wider wheel base than it did with the original wheel base I first made but not that big of a deal.

I haven't tried to open the drawers while squatting on the box but will do that after while. If it turns out to be a problem I will post that.

Lee

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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:19 pm

I had made mention of this was available out of HF. Cost was $9.99 (on sale) so I two of them, one for each side.

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With the tray in the lower setting, which doesn’t fit all that well, but would be usable. The tray part is ~12” X 4 3/8”

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Tray in the upper position which I think I kind of like better plus it fits better. There are three magnets along the upper edge, not real strong magnets but enough to handle a small to decent load. I just went out and tried to see just how much it would handle (no pun intended). I put two half-in drive ratchets in the tray then added a three-eight in ratchet which is handled OK. Adding another 3/8” ratchet caused the tray to start sliding down the smooth side of the cart. The ratchets I used were fairly heavy if that helps any.

I also bought a magnetic strip also ($5.00); 18” long which isn’t long enough to span the wide area so I will have to make a couple of tabs, either in front or in back to mount this. The strip isn’t that strong but should do for small to a bit heavier tools or parts.

"I did sit on the tool box stand and move the stand around while sitting on it. It moved smoothly and when changing from moving closer to the object working on to moving away you have to do a “rotating dance”. I have two( actually three) other garage seats with the short one having 5 wheels. Moving around on the small seat does the same things as this one does but you don’t always go in the direction want when sitting on it and moving and add to that the bottom carriage rotates also. If you put something in the bottom piece that the casters hook to it maybe facing somewhere else when you get to where you want to be. It also has smaller dia. wheels that can get hung up on things; this one shouldn’t hang up quite as easy. The casters are also good for 200#s apiece.

One of the things that happened when I was resetting of the caster mount is that I got a thicker material for the mount than I had so the cart sits a bit higher to the rear by maybe a degree or two; it’s only really noticeable when using a level. It turned out that using the thicker material allowed me to re-level the cart because I managed to make a mistake when welding in one of the caster pads which (combined to the welding problems on the one corner of the base, that I can’t figure out why it) won’t allow me to weld correctly. I’m not the best welder in the world but this corner only wants spit, sputter, burn like a match, put soot everywhere and even skip spots. Tie that to my eyes not liking to weld and that one corner looks pretty bad.

THE CART

Sitting on this version of the cart feels different, partly because I have a sheet of flat stock on it and partly (maybe) because of the slight angle forward it has but mostly the temporary flat stock on the top. I sat on the cart and moved toward the door end of the garage turned to the black buggy than came back to the place where I had set the cart when I moved it from the top of the work stand.

I then tried to access the drawers… damn! When sitting properly on the cart you can access the drawers pretty easily but pulling them out is a problem; the problem originates from forgetting to open the lid unlocking them, sliding them out slightly then closing the lid and pushing the drawers back in. When moving the tool box around by itself you want the drawers locked as they will slide open on you. With the drawers unlocked and the tool box in the cart access is pretty darn good. If I sit centered and my legs straight up and down I can slide the drawers out full length. You still have to deal with the cushion (no mater which way I go on it) to access the under the top part of the box.

The box slides easily in and out of the cart as the handle is quite well centered and balanced when the cart is sitting down low on the floor but on the higher work place I have been using it is a pain/awkward to lift it up and over the frame then slide it in the cart.

If I did this again, and if you want I will make one for you, I would make some drill jigs and assembly jigs. Not hard to do but it would have made things a bit easier I think. On my box I started out by using stock I had laying around but another one would have to be made from new stuff. I think I could make it a bit lighter by going with angle iron all the way rather than using the square stock I had from another project plus there might be some other benefits besides."

I sent the above to someone else (a relation) who was maybe interested but the info might be of some use to someone who might want to try building one.

Lee

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:40 pm

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These pixs show the two HF magnetic trays (I posted about them yesterday) but sitting higher than the wings on the K-Mart/Walmart cart. When sitting on the cart with the trays in the up position they were very easy to access when sitting upright and also when bent over; after I lowered them to the same relative position as on the commercial cart while still accessible but not as easily accessible as when sitting on the cart.

If I were to build my own wings, knowing what I know now, I would not put them down low but up high and then maybe allow them to be folded down for storage. They would also work well, in the upper position, as handles for moving the seat around… or as a liquid or drink holder. Sorry, no recliner or foot rest to be done here.

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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Lookin good!
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:12 pm

Thank you sir! I just got back from the garage giving it a cheap spray can paint job. It looks better in black. :roll:

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: garage sitting creaper with tool box built in

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:38 pm

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Just about done on this build.

Heading to the fabric shop for foam and cover material tomorrow.

I still have to put the locating stops on the plywood but that is a short time piece of work.

I removed the padlock eye and cover yesterday. An easy job using the long arm 3" cut-off tool. The cover was easy; used a drill bit on the flange/peened hinge rod then cut the hinge barrel have way through which then allowed me to access the hinge itself. Both flat sock sections were easy to do using the long arm cut-off air tool. it was a controlled two hand close cutting operation using it with no side slips into the painted areas. I have some paint to add, not quite the same color but both bare spots are very narrow bare metal strips, maybe less than .02 thick.

Lee

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