Cam shaft woes

Bugmekanic · Post by **Bugmekanic** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:22 pm

I have just rebuild my engine, and installed a new scat c35 cam and new lifters (Brazillian, black box). After the cam break in period, let cool, readjusted the valves. Next day took the bug for a short run..No. 2-4 exhaust lobe went flat. Haven't torn the engine down for inspection yet. I know the lobe is shot, and I'm wanting to replace the cam with a different brand. I'm looking at Web Cams w/ thier lifters. My question is, I need some input on which cam would be best suited for my particular engine combo? Here are the specs on the engine...it will be a daily driven car that needs a little performance, but no dragracing.

1955cc 76X90.5
Straight cut gears
CB 044 Supermags 40x36
dual Dellorto 40's
Important! Stock ratio rockers only 1.1:1
moly push rods
dual springs
either 1 1/2 merged or 1-3/4 merged

In a full 69 beetle w/ 388 gears

Not sure if you'll need more info for an accurate recommendation, if so, just ask!

Thought I knew what cam to run, but got lost in all the specs!

Thanks! ~ Jack

BugBite · Post by **BugBite** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:42 am

did you only run the outer spring of your valve springs for break in??

Bugmekanic · Post by **Bugmekanic** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:46 am

No, I ran both springs.

James2 · Post by **James2** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:13 am

Sorry to hear your troubles.

I would run a web 218. it's slighly smaller then the Scat c35, but has more lift.

Currently their is no lifter made under 400 bucks a set that I would run. I found an old set of eatons that I'm running now.

To help save the next cam-
1) break it in with single springs
2) Go to a chevy dealer and get a bottle of EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) to add to your breakin oil.
3) Run a oil rated for Compressin Ignition service the first 500 miles. i.e. dello, rotella, delvac.

Both the supplement and diesel rated oils have larger amounts of ZINC. Zinc is a very effective anti scuff agent. It has been removed from most motor made for gas engines because it promotes slug build up and can damage some convertors.

Good luck

BugBite · Post by **BugBite** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:04 pm

i would say the biggest factor your cam went flat was running both springs on start up....live and learn...

DRD · Post by **DRD** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:25 pm

What cam billet stamping did you have? I run engines all the time with dual springs installed, and never had a problem, use the correct cam lifters.

Post by **sparkmaster1** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:32 pm

So do I. I've never had a cam problem (yet) either. I build approximately 10 engines a year for customers. Stock and high performance. I always use German reground, parkerized lifters from a local source. Tim

BugBite · Post by **BugBite** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:20 pm

nothing wrong with running dual springs, but you NEVER should break a cam in with dual springs...

DRD · Post by **DRD** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:01 pm

All the pro's do it , including myself...

BugBite · Post by **BugBite** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:30 pm

if it works for you great... i have seen wayy too many cams go flat though from that...it's more work involved but its how i do it for all the engines i build....

Mugsy · Post by **Mugsy** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:21 pm

I broke my 1776 in with dual springs. It had DRD Stage 5 heads, Web 163, and Scat lube-a-lobe lifters with SLR treatment. I toar the engine down after 100 miles to look at the cam/lifters and they were fine. I'm not sure if it matters, but I spent alot of time making sure my valvetrain geometry was perfect.

Thanks,
Andy

DRD · Post by **DRD** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:44 pm

Mugsy" it all matters, you will get your enigne down. live and learn like will all did.

VW Grommet · Post by **VW Grommet** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:01 pm

How about oil? I think its accepted that a hi-zinc content oil helps against scuffing. Oil rated for motorcycles or diesel has zinc. I plan to use this (Shell Rotella)...crossing my fingers

EDIT: I saw that james2 already said about this... sorry for the repeat.

ErikTheRed · Post by **ErikTheRed** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:11 pm

My $.02...........

Never had a problem breaking in a cam with dual springs, but I had a Web 86b go flat on me recently-- 3 lobes WIPED OUT-- using Brazillian lifters. Now its a FK-10, Scat lifters, SLR'd, and Bugpack springs--- broke in with BOTH springs again and all is well so far. Used Delo 400 and a bottle of STP oil treatment for break-in. BugBite, I think you will find you are in sparse company with the "never run in a cam with dual springs" opinion. Will it help? Im sure it will-- but most engine builders run it in with both springs installed without a problem. Springs alone are not the only cause for a flat cam!

For us California residents, unfortunately GM EOS is no longer available due to recent emissions laws. If you have a buddy out of state, have him send you a few bottles.

Also, I believe the new SC1 cam billets are a much better material than the older EP12 and ES12 blanks, hopefully we will see less problems with these.

The cam (grind and material), lifters (surface, coating, material, weight), spring pressure, lubrication, assembly, break-in technique/preparation, and valvetrain mass will all play a part in a flat cam. If any of it is wrong, you accellerate the risk.

joel mohr · Post by **joel mohr** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:07 am

I build motors all of the time with the duals left on. Use a WEB cam and you won't have any problems......I've had 1 cam go flat in 7 years and god knows how many motors......For your combo I would use a 122 or a 125....Call Web and you'll have to ask for it, but it'll be worth the wait.