An answer from Cima

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 7:26 pm

A while back I made a post regarding the true nature of the process that is used to make Cima "forged" pistons. Some were saying that they were spun cast and not true forgings. Out of my desire to always know everything I wrote Mahle myself and asked them. I just want to say that my writing them was in no way meant to disprove what others may have thought as I respect most of the opinions of people in the forum. The following is thier response.

Dear Sir,
How are you doing? Hope everything is fine.

Thanks for your interest on our products as well as the processes involving
the production of them.

1- Mahle-Cima
First of all, let me explain you about the name "Mahle-Cima".
This is the old name of the brazilian plant. Their actual name is Mahle
Metal Leve S.A.
They are responsible for the production of the VW (air cooled and water
cooled) products (pistons, liners, bearings, etc).

2- VW pistons
You will find attached an Excel file with the VW kits available to the air
cooled engines in US today.

(See attached file: Air_cooled_kits.xls)

Some of them are those that we know by Standard kits and another are the
Big Bore kits.
All the Standard kits are casted.
Two of the Big Bore kits are casted, but all the rest are forged. These
forged pistons are produced really rusing the normal process of forging
(Forged Aluminum).
Maybe who is saying that they are not forged actually is trying to say that
they are not Forged Iron. Correct! They are not Forged Iron, but they are
Forged (really forged!!) Aluminum.

Some liners (or cylinders) are spun cast. But it's not true to these VW
liners also. All these air cooled liners (cylinders) are Cast Iron liners.

Hope that everything is clear. In case you have doubts or more interest in
some another information, please let us know and we will be glad to help
you.

Kind regards,
Enrison Ladeia
MAHLE, INC - Aftermarket Engineering
Phone: ++ 1 423 318 3711 Fax: ++ 1 423 318 3190
Toll Free: 877 384 5086
E-mail: [email protected]

bad62bug · Post by **bad62bug** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 9:33 pm

Nice job puck, good info to have.

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 1:58 pm

"Forged? At these prices we should be getting the real thing!!" Good detective work. As I think about it somemore, "why the heck would you spin-cast a piston?" Barrels make scence, to keep them straight and stable as the thermal-cycle. Although when I look at the Cima pistons, they do not look like a traditional forging, they look almost like a diecast surface. Someone very knowledgable told me they are not really forged, but spun cast. I sounded reasonable at the time. I guess I was mis-informed. Thanks for setting me and everyone else straight on this.

Billyisgr8 · Post by **Billyisgr8** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:07 pm

Bump

I thought this would be a good topic revived again. I keep seeing posts on these pistons not being forged.

Kevin

twoghias · Post by **twoghias** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:02 am

All the Standard kits are casted.
Two of the Big Bore kits are casted, but all the rest are forged.

does anyone know which two?

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:25 am

87s for sure, and I think 88s too.

Eaallred · Post by **Eaallred** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:02 am

That is really good info to have, thanks for your efforts, Puck! Kudo's.

One thing that does remain though, is the piston tops are still fairly thin (compared to something like a Wiseco or JE piston), and hearing that the wrist pin can/will pull out somewhere around 7500rpm.

I just changed out my 94mm Mahles for some 94mm Wiseco's this year since I was on the 8300rpm limiter while running at the track. It was the wrist pin issue that had me worried the most and why I switched over.

MNotary · Post by **MNotary** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:36 pm

Disagree.

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:26 am

Bruce2 wrote:87s for sure, and I think 88s too.

85.5's too....
Most of the smaller sizes are available as "cast" or "forged".
I've used their "forged" versions in the 85.5, 87, and machine in 88's.

Arnolds64 · Post by **Arnolds64** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:50 am

I just tore down my motor a few months ago to rebuild it. I bought the car with this motor from some guy who told me it was a 1776 (not) so I thought it had 90.5's. Tearing it down it actually had 87's. Jerk! So I bought the new Mahle 90.5's and there is a big difference. You can tell by looking at their bottom sides. The 87's are definitely cast having casting flash where the 90.5 forged are smooth and they also have gas ports behind the ring lands where the 87's did not not.

This thread just confirms this to me as well.

Great Thread!

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:25 pm

MNotary wrote:Disagree.

With what?

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