944 brakes success?
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 12:01 am
944 brakes success?
What's VW Luvas?
Who out there are using the 944 brake conversion, "and driving succesfully with no problems". If everything is working properly please give some testimonials. Thanks, Supavert, Peace!
Who out there are using the 944 brake conversion, "and driving succesfully with no problems". If everything is working properly please give some testimonials. Thanks, Supavert, Peace!
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- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:25 pm
I think classic camber has a kit.
http://www.classiccamber.com
http://www.classiccamber.com
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- Posts: 128
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:01 am
I'm running a 944 setup on my 72 SB Vert. I haven't driven it more than 10 miles in its present setup. I've run into a few things that have not been completely explained in the GermanLook or Superbeetles.com forums. To give you a run down on the setup I have (and in the process of removing/upgrading):
FRONT:
-1303 control arms
-Topline's Camber+ bushings
-Topline's HD swaybar, caster bushings and urethane bushing for the control arms.
-944 spindles with Topline's bumpsteer kit
-Kerscher 17mm balljoints
-944 N/A hubs (83-85.5)
-944 N/A calipers (single pot)
-944 N/A cross drilled rotors (Zimmerman's)
-Topline's Maxx struts (4" drop)
-Topline's strut tie bar
-VW "crash bolts"
-944 M/C
REAR:
-944 N/A Rear hubs
-944 N/A cross drilled rotors (Zimmerman's)
-Custom billet caliper mounts
-2004 Ford Cobra rear calipers (these are similar to the typical calipers found in ACVW rear disc brake kits.....but these are meant for vented rotors.....by the way same ebrake cables found in those kits fit these calipers)
Initially I had a complete 944 setup in the rear....but I kept on breaking the ebrake cable ends (I used a Kerscher end and tubes). After some research I found out that a Cobra rear caliper will fit the 944 N/A rotor and uses the same ebrake cable found in ACVW rear disc brake kits (no more broken cables).
I'm having problems with the front end due to the camber issues created by the 944's spindle. I've got all my adjustments maxxed out.....and the alignment shop will not touch it (reason for low amount of mileage). But....the setup stops the car with serious authority!!! (I might be able to do a stoppie if I disabled the rear brakes j/k). There are ways to correct this....but they all feel like I'm jimmy-riggin it. I'm having a set of custom hubs created and will be using 1303 spindles to get back my camber (you want a 944 setup for reasonable $$$$ email me).
The aspect of the conversion was what was appealing to me.....BUT, you should spend a considerable amount of time looking up the front camber issue and the various ways to fix it so you can feel comfortable. What I might find as a rigged setup you might find acceptable.
FRONT:
-1303 control arms
-Topline's Camber+ bushings
-Topline's HD swaybar, caster bushings and urethane bushing for the control arms.
-944 spindles with Topline's bumpsteer kit
-Kerscher 17mm balljoints
-944 N/A hubs (83-85.5)
-944 N/A calipers (single pot)
-944 N/A cross drilled rotors (Zimmerman's)
-Topline's Maxx struts (4" drop)
-Topline's strut tie bar
-VW "crash bolts"
-944 M/C
REAR:
-944 N/A Rear hubs
-944 N/A cross drilled rotors (Zimmerman's)
-Custom billet caliper mounts
-2004 Ford Cobra rear calipers (these are similar to the typical calipers found in ACVW rear disc brake kits.....but these are meant for vented rotors.....by the way same ebrake cables found in those kits fit these calipers)
Initially I had a complete 944 setup in the rear....but I kept on breaking the ebrake cable ends (I used a Kerscher end and tubes). After some research I found out that a Cobra rear caliper will fit the 944 N/A rotor and uses the same ebrake cable found in ACVW rear disc brake kits (no more broken cables).
I'm having problems with the front end due to the camber issues created by the 944's spindle. I've got all my adjustments maxxed out.....and the alignment shop will not touch it (reason for low amount of mileage). But....the setup stops the car with serious authority!!! (I might be able to do a stoppie if I disabled the rear brakes j/k). There are ways to correct this....but they all feel like I'm jimmy-riggin it. I'm having a set of custom hubs created and will be using 1303 spindles to get back my camber (you want a 944 setup for reasonable $$$$ email me).
The aspect of the conversion was what was appealing to me.....BUT, you should spend a considerable amount of time looking up the front camber issue and the various ways to fix it so you can feel comfortable. What I might find as a rigged setup you might find acceptable.
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- Posts: 3391
- Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:01 am
I just got to bead blasting my 944 N/A (really 924T) rear brake parts. The caliper rebuild kits came in the mail the other day from Pelican Parts.
As far as the cables go I've gone with the vdubcustoms kit from Lanner that uses stock Beetle cables plugged into his tubes to pull on custom 'swan' pieces...the adapter parts should see virtually no wear and there are no BS crimp-on modifications...and e-brake cables are as easy to come by as ever.
As far as the cables go I've gone with the vdubcustoms kit from Lanner that uses stock Beetle cables plugged into his tubes to pull on custom 'swan' pieces...the adapter parts should see virtually no wear and there are no BS crimp-on modifications...and e-brake cables are as easy to come by as ever.
http://www.joesracing.com/
Son of Marc
Son of Marc
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- Posts: 128
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:01 am
SUPAVERT: The "crash bolts" are similar to the H&R bolts.....only difference is that I can pick them up at any dealership. The camber issue is one that appears due to the 944's spindle (check the Germanlook forums and you'll find it.....Superman made a really good comparision between the 1303 and 944 spindles). I've checked most of the posts at Germanlook and you will from time to time hear someone ask how to fix the camber issue. Anyways....even with the "crash bolts" on I pickup some of the camber....but not enough. The main fix for the camber issue is to slot the top bolt hole of the Maxx strut (Kerscher struts already have this mod) and grind a small amount off of the spindle so that it can then move in and remove the camber. You ever wonder why you find threads on camber plates on GermanLook.....its an alternative to slotting the Strut/spindle to fix the camber issue. I haven't done either mod since I feel its a bandaid. There are other ways to fix the issue (more $$$$$) but, I'm not willing to go there. Hence the reason for the custom hubs....that way I can go back to 1303 spindles and remove the camber issue once and for all.
- danielzink
- Posts: 612
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2000 12:01 am
I'm running 944T brakes (Brembo's) on my 65 Std. Beetle.
Over a year now and no problems.
Would do it all over again in a second.
Some fabrication but it was pretty much a bolt on affair.
Using Lanners front adaptors also.
Love the whole setup !
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944front.html
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944rear.html
Dan
Over a year now and no problems.
Would do it all over again in a second.
Some fabrication but it was pretty much a bolt on affair.
Using Lanners front adaptors also.
Love the whole setup !
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944front.html
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944rear.html
Dan
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- Posts: 309
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:01 am
i'm using 1986 944 turbo calipers and rotors front and back on my 69 beetle.
1000km on them and they are the best mod done to my car! i love them.
front
-cb dropped spindles modified by vdubcustoms
-944 hubs modified by vdubcustoms
-and the rest bolted on
rear
-using 86 944 aluminum control arms
-everything bolts up
stock master cylinder, a little more travel then i like in the pedal, but works awesome together with the 944T brakes
http://community.webshots.com/album/135915450EjRtuC
1000km on them and they are the best mod done to my car! i love them.
front
-cb dropped spindles modified by vdubcustoms
-944 hubs modified by vdubcustoms
-and the rest bolted on
rear
-using 86 944 aluminum control arms
-everything bolts up
stock master cylinder, a little more travel then i like in the pedal, but works awesome together with the 944T brakes
http://community.webshots.com/album/135915450EjRtuC
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- Posts: 731
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:17 am
I've got 944 turbo calipers all round. Front hubs are 944 turbo rear's are 944T (naturally aspirated). Front and rear discs are 298mm diameter (turbo front and NA rear).
On the front i've custom modified each caliper to mount directly onto the CB dropped spindle, and the spindle bearing points have been sleaved to allow fitment of standard porsche size bearings.
The rear is swing axel with early short splines, so all i had to do to get it to fit was to machine 15mm out of the hub, just like a type 3 rear drum conversion.
I use a standard VW beetle type 1 master cylinder. 17x7 front and 17x7.5 rear cup 2 wheels with falken 195x40x17's and 215x40x17's.
It stops on a dime, and can virtually out brake anything on the road. And breaking at high speed is smooth and stable as....
A mate that circuit races his car with a simular setup says he can brake into the corners with a porsche GT2, its only when they are accelerating out of the corners that the porsche gets away from him.
In short... Porsche brakes rock!
On the front i've custom modified each caliper to mount directly onto the CB dropped spindle, and the spindle bearing points have been sleaved to allow fitment of standard porsche size bearings.
The rear is swing axel with early short splines, so all i had to do to get it to fit was to machine 15mm out of the hub, just like a type 3 rear drum conversion.
I use a standard VW beetle type 1 master cylinder. 17x7 front and 17x7.5 rear cup 2 wheels with falken 195x40x17's and 215x40x17's.
It stops on a dime, and can virtually out brake anything on the road. And breaking at high speed is smooth and stable as....
A mate that circuit races his car with a simular setup says he can brake into the corners with a porsche GT2, its only when they are accelerating out of the corners that the porsche gets away from him.
In short... Porsche brakes rock!
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:04 pm
is this camber problem generic in the superbeetles only?
it seems that only the superbeetle guys are complaining about it and the normal beetles are having great success?
could someone please clarify this as i am coming up to the time where i am going to be choosing brakes. and im not sure whether to spend the extra and get a tarox 6pot system or to use the 944T (brembo) setup.
also any comparisons would be good if someone has used both or seen both in use.
its a 71superbug by the way.
Anthony
it seems that only the superbeetle guys are complaining about it and the normal beetles are having great success?
could someone please clarify this as i am coming up to the time where i am going to be choosing brakes. and im not sure whether to spend the extra and get a tarox 6pot system or to use the 944T (brembo) setup.
also any comparisons would be good if someone has used both or seen both in use.
its a 71superbug by the way.
Anthony
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- Posts: 128
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:01 am
Standard beetles will not have the same problem as a Super. When you do the conversion of a standard beetle your using a stock bug spindle. But, if you make the mistake of using a 944 spindle (Super beeltes can use the 944 spindle instead of the stock one....to eliminate the need for caliper brackets, custom hubs or bearing adapters) you'll end up with the camber problem. If you have a chance to look at a 944's spindle/strut you will notice that the top bolt area of the 944's strut has a bump and a slot to allow for camber adjustments. I believe Kerscher's struts mimic this slot on their struts but Maxx's don't. I made the mistake of listening to others online say that short of the Kersher balljoints this is a bolt on for a Super.
It isn't.....if your going to use the 944's spindle you are going to have to do some work to correct the camber issues. To give you the short list of what would be needed to do to correct the problem:
-Topline's camber + bushings
-Crash bolts (these can be purchased at a local VW dealership and where meant to be used on cars that had a collision in the front)....these are similar to the H&R bolts
-Slotting the Maxx struts and grinding a SMALL!!!! amount from the top bolt of the spindle (allows more camber adjustment)
-Camber plates
-Relocating the Maxx's strut/spindle bracket slightly lower (not for the faint of heart)
So save yourself the grief (unless your ok with doing some or all of the above) and stick with the stock SB spindle and purchase a custom hub/caliper mount. It will be painless and you'll be able to stick with the SB balljoint and not have to purchase the Kersher unit
It isn't.....if your going to use the 944's spindle you are going to have to do some work to correct the camber issues. To give you the short list of what would be needed to do to correct the problem:
-Topline's camber + bushings
-Crash bolts (these can be purchased at a local VW dealership and where meant to be used on cars that had a collision in the front)....these are similar to the H&R bolts
-Slotting the Maxx struts and grinding a SMALL!!!! amount from the top bolt of the spindle (allows more camber adjustment)
-Camber plates
-Relocating the Maxx's strut/spindle bracket slightly lower (not for the faint of heart)
So save yourself the grief (unless your ok with doing some or all of the above) and stick with the stock SB spindle and purchase a custom hub/caliper mount. It will be painless and you'll be able to stick with the SB balljoint and not have to purchase the Kersher unit
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- Posts: 252
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 1:01 am
I'll post the results of my track weekend next week.
Porsche Boxster rear calipers mounted on the front
944 n/a rear calipers and discs in the rear
VW Bus 23 mm master cylinder
So far on the street everything seems okay, but won't know about brake balance until I have the opportunity to test it on the track.
Porsche Boxster rear calipers mounted on the front
944 n/a rear calipers and discs in the rear
VW Bus 23 mm master cylinder
So far on the street everything seems okay, but won't know about brake balance until I have the opportunity to test it on the track.
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- Posts: 252
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 1:01 am
Sorry, can't say too much about what my brake conversion was like at the track. Had major engine problems which limited me to 3 whole laps, a bit over 6 miles before what's probably a vacuum leak stopped me.
Anyway, on a damp track the brake bias seems okay, but of course I was not running hard for 20 minutes. Obviously no fade, as the stock brakes wouldn't fade until much later into the session. Hpoe to fix this problem soon and be back at the track for the next session.
Anyway, on a damp track the brake bias seems okay, but of course I was not running hard for 20 minutes. Obviously no fade, as the stock brakes wouldn't fade until much later into the session. Hpoe to fix this problem soon and be back at the track for the next session.