First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

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Humpty
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First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by Humpty » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:54 am

Some background.... I purchased this MS1Extra/Mexi setup off Mario years ago.... Been fiddling with it for these past weeks, whilst doing body and paint repairs on my 68 Microbus. Finally got to go out for it's first drive this afternoon.... Not a long drive... 10 minutes if that... Some small suburban hills.... Long slow speed stretches, speed bumps and stop signs.... Got into 4th gear at 70kmh for a very short spell.... And this is the result of the auto tune....

A bit messy to my very unsure/trained mind.... Is there any tips you guys can offer to help me clean this up?
at first I felt the plugs fouling under load, but this seemed to be more about a very rich condition, as the tune was attempting to clean things up.... It certainly worked.... But I feel I need to do some desktop work on the VE table, before I attempt this again.... I'm planning to go for a solid freeway drive tomorrow, and rack up some traffic and suburban miles for most of the day, so any help that you guys can provide to get this map in a better base, would be greatly appreciated.
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gtmdriver
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by gtmdriver » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:04 am

It can be quite useful to look at the 3D version of the VE table too.

You can smooth the table manually simply by dragging the points on the 3D table but the tables themselves have a smoothing feature where you can highlight and smooth just a few cells or even the whole table. If I were you though I would get a few more miles on the car using VE analyse live before I started smoothing it.

You will find that at first the alterations made by VE analyse live are quite significant but the more you drive you will notice that the changes become fewer and more subtle. That's the point where you can think about smoothing the table a little.

Remember though that there will always be areas of the table that you just don't reach when driving the car on the road. That's why the best tune will always be achieved on the rolling road.

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Humpty
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by Humpty » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:47 am

Cheers for the input GTdriver.... I'll be sure to put some kms on the Bus tomorrow!
The 'Required Fuel' setting is currently set to 10.7ms.... Would reducing that improve my values in the VE?
It seems my numbers are a little on the high side... Or am I just looking at this wrong?
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gtmdriver
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by gtmdriver » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:50 am

The 'required fuel' value is calculated by the software from values which you have entered regarding the different parameters of the engine so I would leave that alone.

Remember that VE Analyse Live automatically adjusts the fuelling (values in the VE table) to achieve the AFR ratios which you have specified in the AFR table so if you've entered the wrong values here then TunerStudio will be working with erroneous data to start with.

What engine are you working with. This is my AFR table for my standard 1600 TP type 1 engine. It hasn't been set up on a rolling road yet but it's very driveable at the moment and is a whole lot better than the twin 34 ICT's I had on preciously.

Image

As I said it's not been on a rolling road yet but it may give you a starting point.

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Humpty
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by Humpty » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:58 am

Attached is the AFR target table.... The current VE is attached too. I sent through my .msq to Mario this morning and he had a bit of a play with it... I have also noticed the fuel pressure sits between 40 and 50psi... Could this be effecting the tune? Apart from a few minor issues, it seems to be working pretty well right now. Though today I noticed it was feeling a little flat and down on power... Kinda like the spark plugs are done. Which is very possible given the extreme rich conditions the tuning software has been trying to clean up.... Hoping a fresh set of plugs tomorrow will clean things up.
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panel
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by panel » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:57 pm

Humpty , can you also post up your 'Ignition Table' ? Is your FPR adjustable ?

66brm
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by 66brm » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:41 am

I think he's on the road but yes the fpr is adjustable

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gtmdriver
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by gtmdriver » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:07 am

My first thought is that, with the same target AFR for all running conditions it's going to be very rich when you're running under cruise conditions.

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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by Clonebug » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:20 am

Humpty wrote:Attached is the AFR target table.... The current VE is attached too. I sent through my .msq to Mario this morning and he had a bit of a play with it... I have also noticed the fuel pressure sits between 40 and 50psi... Could this be effecting the tune? Apart from a few minor issues, it seems to be working pretty well right now. Though today I noticed it was feeling a little flat and down on power... Kinda like the spark plugs are done. Which is very possible given the extreme rich conditions the tuning software has been trying to clean up.... Hoping a fresh set of plugs tomorrow will clean things up.
Just to try something.......Do a Save As.... so you can always go back if the tune doesn't work as well.

On your afr table...take the upper left area from 70 kpa and up to about 2200 rpm and lower to 12.5 afr.
I found when my engine was leaner in those areas it had no low end torque at take off from a start.
I richened it up and immediately noticed it would take off from a start much better.

My engine also seems to like to idle at about 12.8-12.9:1.
You could also take your cruise area and lean it out to 14.1:1 which is Stoich for the E10 fuel we have around here.
13.5:1 is actually supposed to be a hotter running afr.
I have tried 15.1 afr at cruise and bumped my ign adv up to 41.5 degrees but in local driving I keep cruise at 14.1 afr and around 36 degrees advance around 2500-4200 rpm from 40-90 kpa.
It seems to be fairly happy there.
Since my map goes from 20-250 kpa it doesn't have the resolution that you will have with only a 100 kpa ceiling.

The nice thing about MS is you can always try something and change it if you don't get the results you want.

Don't be afraid to try things as long as you save as... you can always go back to the prior tune if something goes dreadfully wrong.
As long as you aren't doing drastic stuff with a high boost engine you should not be able to hurt anything.

Your fuel numbers on your map are right where mine are, at 90 at 100 kpa so the scale is fine. The higher the numbers the finer the resolution will be if you know what I mean.
Pile has explained it before too.

I have tried table switching with dual tables on fuel and ignition but I need to have Mario go on a tuning run with me for that setup. I had it set to switch at 100 kpa.
I just don't have a lot of time to tune since I am working almost dark to dark and don't get a long enough drive to tune.
The wife isn't really interested in having a laptop in her lap either...... :roll: :oops:
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Humpty
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Re: First go at Tune Analyse Live with my MS1Extra/Mexi rig

Post by Humpty » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:12 am

Well.... This thread got away from me.... I've been back home a for a couple of months now.... The trip went well, but not without some challenges.... Managed to kill two engines!

The first one was more of a case of my dumb error (#1 injector plug not fitted correctly) and a very worn engine.

The second failure was on account of having to build an engine in a very short amount of time (4 days), with some parts that shouldn't be used...

As for the EFI.... It bloody rocks!..Total convert... Learnt so much on the trip. Chatted with Mario a few times while on the road (East Coast Australia to West Coast USA is a huge time difference!), working through a few minor problems. But on the whole, Im stoked with how well the bus went.

Hopefully will get time to work on the Bus next month, and sort out the failure, while speccing up the engine a touch.

Cheers for all your input guys.

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