PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

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bladerunner80
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PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:06 pm

Hi all, I'm in the process of finishing up the installation of an ignition only Microsquirt V3 install. I'm using EDIS with the Microsquirt. Per the wiring diagram, I see the VR sensor shield wire connects directly to pin 7 (shield pin) on the EDIS connector. On the same wiring diagram, the PIP and SAW leads show a shield as well. If I connect one end of the shield for the PIP and SAW wires to pin 7 on the EDIS connector, where does the other end connect to on the Microsquirt's AMPSEAL connector? Does it just go the main ground, sensor ground, both?

Thanks!

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by Jadewombat » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:26 pm

Not quite sure what you mean, but the shield wire for 7 is just that, a shield to reduce noise. It should still run.

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by Clonebug » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:28 am

It's only grounded to the EDIS module. There is a dedicated ground wire for that. Just hook the shield to it and leave the other end unhooked.

Its been a few years now since I had EDIS.
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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by Piledriver » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:08 pm

I still don't understand why folks are running EDIS when the ECU can do far more with direct control?

EDIS was the original setup they got working for crank trigger ~15 years ago, but direct fire is a lot easier to troubleshoot etc. EDIS has not been the preferred setup in a very long time.

Is it just from people reading the (obsolete) Megamanual?
Its only useful as a historical document, and causes confusion for everyone but the dozen people still running B&G firmware.
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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:19 pm

I guess the reason I went down the EDIS road was due to that i had originally bought a mega jolt box, but then somehow got clued into Microsquirt and since i had already bought the EDIS stuff, decided to keep it and run with it. I'll be going fuel injection later this year, wanted to get my feet wet with ignition first as this is all new to me (my ITB's from Frank at VW Speed Shop came in a couple weeks ago). Luckily I didn't spend a whole lot on the EDIS stuff. I guess I'll do some additional research into the other ignition systems, I doubt it would be too difficult to change it up. But, I'll stick with the EDIS now as its all wired up and ready to fire up.

Thanks for all replies and help!

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by Piledriver » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:20 am

It will be easy, the uS can use the std VR sensor just fine and the existing wheel.

Easiest to use a VW 4 tower coil tho as its logic controlled, they can be had cheap (like ~$35), 2000 VW Beetle IIRC.
To drive dumb coils you would need an external driver box.
(feature, really, logic coils keep the huge ign noise out of the ecu)
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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:49 pm

Thanks Piledriver. I was perusing Mario's site, I see the LS2 coil on plug option as well. I'm guessing I would need the Quad Spark hardware to drive those coils? I'll look into the VW coil as well. I didn't realize the EDIS stuff wasn't really being used anymore. But, I have been working on this project off and on for the last couple years.

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by Piledriver » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:00 am

bladerunner80 wrote:Thanks Piledriver. I was perusing Mario's site, I see the LS2 coil on plug option as well. I'm guessing I would need the Quad Spark hardware to drive those coils? I'll look into the VW coil as well. I didn't realize the EDIS stuff wasn't really being used anymore. But, I have been working on this project off and on for the last couple years.
The LS2 coils are also logic control, but you might run into dwell limit issues over ~6500 RPM running waste spark.
The $35ish VW 4 tower coil is a better choice for waste spark and a LOT cheaper as you need one rather than 4 and fabbing mounting brackets etc... The 4 tower bolts to the fan housing or whatever.

EDIS works when it works, but diagnosing it is mostly only swapping parts just like on a Ford.
Its a black box. Literally. It works or it doesn't with damn little in between... and no spark cut.

With direct control, in test mode you can (example) tell coil 1 to fire 1000 times with a spark every 250 ms same with injectors. You can see and log the tooth signal in diags etc... EDIS? Not so much.
Direct control also doesn't require the sensor at 10BTDC. It doesn't really care, you just give it an angle offset so the requested timing and light agree.

If you do the wheel in the distributor you just set the offset for 80 degrees and spin the distributor old school style until the timing agrees, maybe giving it a degree or so more/less offset to make it perfect, then lock it down and forget about it.

EDITED:
Regardless of trigger setup, Its Much Mo betta, even if you only have to fight it once.

Note you can also switch to a Hall sensor for a nice clean wheel signal that you can even see with a DVM turning it over by hand--not an option with EDIS, don't know if you can even use a non-EDIS VR sensor.
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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:50 pm

That's great info, thanks Piledriver. It really does make sense to ditch the EDIS stuff. After reading your response yesterday you convinced me to switch over. I cross referenced the vehicles that used those coil packs and will sneak over to the wrecking yard to grab the wiring harness and a coil pack. I may just buy a new coil pack since they're so cheap.

Can you elaborate on the set up settings or maybe point me in the right direction for the basic info for setting up the microsquirt box to talk to the ignition coil? On the online manual for the microsquirt under the ignition options menu, it details out the setup process for using EDIS. Is there something similar when using the VW coilpack?

When I was going down the mega jolt route, I bought a VR sensor and bracket from Mario. He also machined my pulley for the toothed wheel. So I'm all set there, everything is wired in and ready to go.

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:25 pm

Disregard about the settings.....I read the manual again and found the info referencing what I asking about. Jumped ahead of myself!

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:25 pm

I've got another quick question regarding the coil pack and the spark plug leads. Which leads go to which cylinders? In the microsquirt manual, the diagram shows one bank going to cylinders 1 & 4 and the bank going cylinders plugs 2 & 3. But the manual isn't aircooled type 1 specific and i remember when I was going the EDIS route, I had to change the order around since the aircooled vw engines use a different firing order than the EDIS setup.

Image

I found this pic online as well that show which cylinder corresponds to each to each post, but I still don't know if that is the correct. Any info would be appreciated. Again, thanks for all the help....I'm slowly figuring all this out!

Image

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by jhoefer » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:45 pm

bladerunner80 wrote:Image
This wasted-spark coil is 2 coils with 2 posts each. Posts 1 & 4 are part of coil 1 and fire together, posts 2 &3 are part of coil 2 and fire together.

For a 4 cylinder engine, the microsquirt is going to fire SpkA, SpkB, SpkA, SpkB. This in turn is going to fire the coil as Coil1, Coil2, Coil1, Coil2. VW firing order is 1-4-3-2, so just connect cylinder 1 to post 1, cylinder 4 to post 2, cylinder 3 to post 4, and cylinder 2 to post 3.

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Re: PIP and SAW Shield Wire Question on Microsquirt V3

Post by bladerunner80 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:19 am

Ah, got it. That makes total sense. I took a closer look at my coil tonight and saw the letters next to each post...they were kind of covered with grime, the pic I posted also makes way more sense now. Thanks again for the help!

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