Anyone tried the ITB tuning mode in Tunerstudio

[K-Roc]

Hi Thanks gentlemen, I will zip up and MSQ and log tonight when Im home from work, MSQ is current ( even though I have been messing with it a bit ) log files from the end of last summer as I havent put insurance on it yet with the shitty weather.
I can d a few throttle blips in the driveway or on my street and log those if its not pissing rain tonight....

I also have a pair of 42mm Jenvey T bodies sitting here, but I would need to massage up a set of manifolds to install them ( I purchased a set of Udo becker manifolds that have a 40mm opening at the top rather than the standard 48mm opening)
But I will need to port match them. just need the time...............

Was also thinking that perhaps reducing the Vacume line size I have from 1/4" to 1/8" on my manifold tree would help as well. ( one line from each runner going to a common accumulator then to the Map sensor on the MS. I do have an adjustable restrictor orifice in the 1/4" line but making the orifice bigger or smaller doesnt really seem to make a difference.

Dale M I have seriously thought about doing this as most aftermarket ECUs have the Map sensor remote, ( I figure its for a reason ) and then I read this..

From megasquirt documents..

Don't worry about how long your MAP sensor vacuum hose is. Intuitively it seems that shorter should be better. However, a few people have done tests to see how bad the effect of a long hose was on vacuum signal propagation. With a ~100 foot (~30 meters) coil of rubber tubing in between the MegaSquirt® and the engine, the result was that no delay was apparent. This was with about a 10 millisecond resolution clock. The reason for this is that air has so little inertia that it moves very quickly in response to a vacuum (this is how we fill the cylinders, after all!).



Cheers

[Steve Arndt]

Try to get four taps, one per throat. Equal length. Then run them to a res. Mine is 1" pipe, about 5 inches long for a decent size volume but not so big as to lag. Then I run a line from the res, to a restrictor, to the map sensor. The restictor is ~0.035 hole I drilled in a soldered piece of tubing. I'm running 45mm ITBs, 12.2:1 compression, 2275, small port heads. I'm running 100% speed density. I have also tuned it 100% alpha N for a time of testing, and various blending schemes of the two.

[K-Roc]

Hi Steve, thats exactly what I have , a 1/4 line tapped into each manifold runner, then to a small acuumulator about 1" x 4"
Then from the accumulator to the restrictor, then to the ON ecu Map sensor. ( ECU is under the back seat so lines are not really that long)

Thanks,

Darren

[Steve Arndt]

That should work dandy as far as map signal is concerned, that is about the best you can do.

With an FK87 cam you should probably be running alpha N.

Is your acceleration enrichment based only on TPS change, or does it include map in the algorithm? My setup is is 100 TPS based acceleration enrichment.

[K-Roc]

Im 100% TPS on acceleration enrichment, I have messed with that enrichment for many years and have never been satisfied.

I am sure I have all the bases covered hardware wise, I must be missing something in the setup, probably something stupidly simple.

Yea Alpha N perhaps is the way to go, hence my question about the ITB mode, kinda the best of both worlds? and auto tune can still be used...

[Piledriver]

It may simply be the wall wetting setting is wrong.

The default basic enrichment is brutally rich, accel default tables as as likely to have too much fuel as not enough.

The Labmda delay matters as far as the auto tune goes, the defaults seem to be for a sensor in a log manifold on a V8. If I don't have mine set right it autotunes pretty randomly unless running steady state.

[K-Roc]

What's the wall wetting setting?

[Steve Arndt]

What's the wall wetting setting?

I would say 100% with them pointed to the outside like that.

That is the only pic I can find of Darren's engine. Is there a loss in quick (snap) throttle response when the injectors point to the outside like that? At low engine speed there isn't much air mass or velocity to carry that fuel and keep it suspended.

[K-Roc]

Steve, I hear what your saying,but what I'm curious about is your thoughts on why there would be a difference in wall wetting the way I have the T bodies installed Vs. turning them 180 degrees, the spray would just hit the manifold wall on the other side then wouldnt it?

On the flow bench measuring the velocity with a pitot tube there isn't that much difference anywhere in that area of the port and it's actually faster along the the long side of port and slower on the short side.

Having said that you still might be on to something......
Flipping the t bodies around isn't an option due to clearance unless I put the injectors in the manifolds or something.


Thanks.

[Steve Arndt]

If you would respond to my friend request on facebook I could show you pics of my engine easier. jab jab.


The ITBs I have now with outboard angled injectors do not point at the inside port wall. They are at a steep angle and shoot directly into the center of the air column. They are at tangent to the center. I switched from CB 48mm to Redline 45mm because of the 20 degree steeper downward injector angle so that they don't wash the port wall.

With tuning and tweaking you can optimize your setup, but it isn't ideal. The restraints of fitting into the tight engine compartment and all.

[K-Roc]

Damm Facebook LOL! I exsist on Facebook but am not really into social media so I have No friends on Facebook...
I originally signed up to get a deal at DIY autotune

Here is a snapshot of a better angle on the T body and injector in relation to the manifold.

[Piledriver]

First question: (as we don't have your msq yet )

Sequential?
Really matters at tip in (in particular), not sure what strategy will work best for a huge cam.

Failing that, you have semi-sequential (timed batch) with the std hardware if you turn it on, it at least guaranteed consistency.
(It should probably be default, but wasn't last I ran MS2-e)

The wall wetting is a fuel calculation for fuel that is going on behind the scenes... It literally does a running calculation how much fuel is stuck to the manifold and ports walls as liquid at any given instant.

With aim like yours and probably low velocity at lower RPM, the injection timing and wall wetting tables would be the third thing on my list after getting a decent VE table and having the timing right.

(Don't forget to find out what your lambda delay really is, having it right takes most of the random changes out of VEAL)

[K-Roc]

Sorry Mr Piledriver I had to finish up a motor for Henry at Intermeccanica last night, I promise to get the MSQ and log zipped up and posted after work today, I will warm the car up and log some pedal stomps for you.

For Dialing my VE table I have always just ran logs through VE anylize rather than use the " Live" tuning, it seems to do a better job for me,

As you say the Lambda delay needs to be set correctly and I know that I dont have this correct....
Need to add ' "set up lambda delays correctly" to my list of things to do.....

Thanks Man.

[K-Roc]

Hi guys, It wasn't raining when I got home so I warmed up the car a data logged a quick trip around the block I pissed with the timing and Accel bins a bit last week and it is betterr than last year for sure, A free rev from Idle in neutral is still total crap, but hammering to the floor from 4000 in first gear it pulled petty well.

Here is the current MSQ and a data Log

Details of the log

at 623,632 and 642 are half pedal snaps in neutral,
650 fll pedal stomp in neutral
694 rolling along in first gear mash pedal to floor at 4000 rpm,, pulled pretty well
724 rolling along again in first full pedal stomp for a tiny bit longer pulled to 7200 pretty well.
after that I putted back home as I live in a very quiet neighborhood...

Thanks for looking

[Michael]

I'm really interested in seeing the result of this as I'm having the same issue. I switched over to 100% map AE and it seemed to improved, but still get a lean spike on the throttle mash. I'm going to try and set me TPS lag to 100 and go back to 100% TPS AE to see if that responds better.

Have you dialed in your injector dead time numbers from actual tests?

So far, I'm chalking it up as the head I got ported from you are too good for my ms3 to handle. Lol...