going through the big change... Fuel only to wasted spark

[juki48]

I found a table generator here http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/spktable.htm

and playing with the inputs a little created a map that seems to be reasonable. to me at least.
what do you think?

[Devastator]

Looks like a good starting point...except for those areas with a 5 in them. Looks like a valve burner right there.

[juki48]

Below ~83 KPA you should start cranking the timing, and you could probably get away with much more at low boost.
You can also use multiple tables in either axis for more resolution, but let's get you running first.

>50btdc at ~55 KPA cruise would be normal, and required to keep EGT/CHT down.(at least with gas)
The mix burns much slower at low pressure, and even slower when very lean as it should be at cruise.
The increased timing is NEEDED. You are not running a locked 009...

I really need to learn more about tuning. I've been looking at the SVDA curves to get an idea of what the stock timing did. basically, 10° initial plus 20° advance by 3k rpm and 10° by around 66 kpa, so you would be cruising at 3k rpm around 40° advance.

I typically cruise around 2900 rpm and 40-50 kpa with 10% throttle, so should I be even higher than 50°?

what I don't understand is how to know what my engine needs. how early and how fast should timing kick in, what about above 3k rpm? and below 66 kpa? I've heard for above 100 kpa to use -1° per psi so that part is pretty straightforward.

I do know I need to be cautious until I get an intercooler installed. when I first drove my car I had detonation at 5psi boost and 30° advance. I limited my advance to around 25° and have had no issues, which falls inline with that -1° per psi.

my other question is do I need my afr to be high under those low load, high advance conditions? I know it can be but right now I never go below 14.7. do I need to increase that to run 50+° advance?

sorry for the wordy post

[Piledriver]

I ran 22:1 over most of my map for ages (My old JAW read from 10:1>>.free air)

Under boost, target 12.5: or richer, 11:1 under high boost is not unusual.

~85-100KPA, 13.1-13.5 works.

Keep in mind: the VEtable is a calibration.
Once that is correct the AFR Target table is what you alter to change the AFR.
Once the vetable is correct for the engine, you can alter the AFR target at will and it will give you what you ask for.
The ve table will not change much once done properly unless you change hardware.

[juki48]

Keep in mind: the VEtable is a calibration.
Once that is correct the AFR Target table is what you alter to change the AFR.
Once the vetable is correct for the engine, you can alter the AFR target at will and it will give you what you ask for.
The ve table will not change much once done properly unless you change hardware.

Really? I thought the VE table was what drove the amount of fuel and if the AFR did not match the AFR table it would deviate from the VE table to match the AFR. so in my understanding, changing only the AFR would require constant fuel corrections.

[Piledriver]

the ve table is the calibration of the engine at various loads and RPM
the target is simply the target

both are used along with temperature and other variables to calculate fuel.

If you want to change the AFR target, change the TARGET, not the ve table, assuming it is correct.
Once the VE table is calibrated at (for example) 13.5:1 everywhere, you can later change areas of the target table at will and the results will be very close.

VEAL changes the VE table so it matches the AFR targets in the table.
If your settings are correct, the math is consistent when you change the targets.

[juki48]

I spent another night soldering
I'm set up for VR trigger, I have srp1 and spr2 going through filter circuits and into JS4 and JS5 for my oil and fuel pressure gauges, D15 is pulled up to 5v and is going out SPR3 to drive the tach. I also made a high voltage tach driver inside a relay using this circuit
is that correct? did I need to bring it up to 5v for that 2n5551?
I'm thinking about using Fidle to turn my intercooler pump on above a given IAT.
we are finally above freezing out so I'm hoping to get all this put into the ghia soon!

[juki48]

Thanks so much for the help!!!!!!!!!!! Running right now with no dizzy!!!!

[TouringBubble]

the ve table is the calibration of the engine at various loads and RPM
the target is simply the target

both are used along with temperature and other variables to calculate fuel.

If you want to change the AFR target, change the TARGET, not the ve table, assuming it is correct.
Once the VE table is calibrated at (for example) 13.5:1 everywhere, you can later change areas of the target table at will and the results will be very close.

VEAL changes the VE table so it matches the AFR targets in the table.
If your settings are correct, the math is consistent when you change the targets.

Isn't this only true if using the "Incorporate AFR Table" option?

[Piledriver]

Isn't this only true if using the "Incorporate AFR Table" option?

Yes. but it is also the default for good reason.

If you want to constantly chase the fueling by changing the VE table rather than calibrating the setup and simply setting the AFR where you want it in the AFR table you are free to do so.

Some setups may not work well with "incorporate AFR", it is something that can be changed.

I simply explained how it was meant to be used: it took me awhile to get it straight as there was no particularly good explanation in the manual at that time.

Once understood, it all made sense and just worked.

[TouringBubble]

I get where you are coming from, but if I have my AFR table set where I want it before dialing in the VE, why would I change the AFR table later? I mean if you decide to run 12.8 instead of 12.5, sure. I have just never tuned that way. I may use that when i go to E85 though.

[Piledriver]

Example: change the afr target on the dyno for best results.
you change the target, not the ve table, assuming the ve table was already corrected.
if the ve table was correct at 14.7:1 (set with a nb sensor for example) you can set the target anywhere, accurately

[TouringBubble]

no, I understand how it works. I guess I can see the difference on the dyno. Or if you changed fuels maybe. I guess I just already have a good idea of what my targets are and don't see the need to tweak them later. But, I guess the method is to tune the VE table to be correct then you can turn on the AFR table incorporation and make tweaks if needed.

[Piledriver]

You have to tune the VE table with "incorporate AFR" on, OR off, the results will be much different IIRC.
(I tried it both ways, you basically start over on the VEAL runs)

I found it very useful to have it on when I wanted to try lean burn at cruise.
It didn't need any tweaks (although I did check it, the error was ~zero)

[juki48]

what AFR do you run at idle?