apc system

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danyyo
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apc system

Post by danyyo » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:42 am

I was searching turbobricks forum,and i find interesting thread.....What do you think about using saab apc system on wv turbo engines?

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Piledriver
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Re: apc system

Post by Piledriver » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:23 pm

It's fascinating for 1990, but essentially does the same thing any MS3 setup can do today.(with the optional knock module)
...Or even MS1/2 (or really any ECU with a knock input) with a J&S Safeguard ignition/knock controller knock output feeding an EBC to reduce boost. (The safeguard controls the timing retard by itself, it will work with carbs and any ignition)

SAABs prior setup (trionic) used ion-sense for knock detection/timing control, which was actually far more advanced.
APC was a cheaper version.

I know Trionic was adapted to other engines, and I have even played with Delphi HD Twincam coils (ion sense) on my car.
HD only uses it for a knock sensor rather than PPP control as SAAB Trionic could.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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ps2375
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Re: apc system

Post by ps2375 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:00 pm

I have a friend who's running one on his boosted 16V 2L hybrid H2O cooled motor. I'm not sure what he's using it for, knock or boost control.

danyyo
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Re: apc system

Post by danyyo » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:07 am

I would like to use it for knock control, if knock sensor work fine because of valvetrain noise.

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Piledriver
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Re: apc system

Post by Piledriver » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:54 am

danyyo wrote:I would like to use it for knock control, if knock sensor work fine because of valvetrain noise.
The APC knock setup Is tuned for a SAAB 16v water cooled inline 4.
I am highly dubious it will work on a very mechanically noisy ACVW, AFAIK its not user programmable.
The earlier SAAB Trionic setup has a better chance, as it uses ion sense and doesn't care about a noisy valvetrain.
Integrating it mechanically may prove to be a challenge...

There are also some Delphi "smart" coils used on various vehicles with built in ion sense knock and sometimes misfire detection, with digital outputs for knock at least. From memory first ones were Isusu Rodeo V6 but cannot recall the years. May be newer models with ~same tech out there, the early coils had some issues.

A J&S Safeguard is tunable for other applications, and is known to work and used by several folks, as is the MS3 knock module. These use std knock sensors.(MS3 setup can use two)

The current "best" tech are the in-cylinder pressure sensors, they sell glow plugs for late model TDIs (1 per engine) like this and some Mercedes allegedly have CPO or "cylinder pressure only" sensors that are much more compact.
These put out a 0-5v pressure signal that just needs simple processing for knock detection, as the knock waveform is quite distinct. (signal could probably be fed to a std knock sensor setup with a little filtering)

I have been trying to find a definitive application or part# for those for awhile, may be Europe only.

I'm not an "expert" on this, but I have gone down this path a few times.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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ps2375
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Re: apc system

Post by ps2375 » Sun May 14, 2017 12:16 pm

Here's a place to get a Knock sensor setup complete from sensor to module for input into MS. All at a very reasonable price, I had bought a setup for my previous car but never had the chance to install it. Knock Sense

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: apc system

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:22 pm

I use the knock sense modul wired into the Micro squirt on my wasser race motor, i used a Jaguar diesel knock sensor and the modul has a sensativity adjustment, the knock threshold minimum and max rpm and degrees of ignition retard are all set up in uS settings, but ive not track tested the setup yet, tho short road tests have not shown any daft ghost mechanical noise problems so far.

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