MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

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maxyray
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MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:17 am

Hi Guys,

Finally got my engine started and broken in. But now have a problem with timing that I’m hoping someone on here can help me with.

Here is a link to my build…..
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=138344

My problem is this. I’m getting different timing readings. From the strobe, from tunerstudios ignition advance main table and from veal.

Here is a picture showing the problem….
Image

@ 2000rpm the strobe reads 32 deg advance.

Any ideas????
Thanks
Max

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by Chip Birks » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:33 am

Veal is not showing timing, that is your fuel VE table. The timing could be tweaked by other things, than the tavle itself. I know almost nothing about MS1 though. More familiar with ms3.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:55 am

Chip Birks wrote:Veal is not showing timing, that is your fuel VE table. The timing could be tweaked by other things, than the tavle itself. I know almost nothing about MS1 though. More familiar with ms3.
Lol you're totally right my mistake. :oops:

I’m still have some odd readings. Just ran some tests.

@2000rpm...

strobe reads 35 ad
TS dashboard reads 100 ad
Ignition table reads 26 ad


The timing does increase with rpm.

Any Ideas?
Thanks
Max

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ps2375
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by ps2375 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:46 am

Sounds like you might have some settings wrong. Have you sync'd the timing and what dial on the TS dash is giving you100*adv?

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:05 am

ps2375 wrote:Sounds like you might have some settings wrong. Have you sync'd the timing and what dial on the TS dash is giving you100*adv?
I tried but I was following this…..
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... how_to.htm
and the version of TS I’m using (a new version) hasn’t got a Trigger Wizard.

Any idea where I can find the setting to change this????
Thanks
Max

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by Chip Birks » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:28 am

Did you notice the red print after the first or second sentence on the article you linked to? It says that it is not for toothed wheel applocations. Unless of course EDIS fits into a different category. It seems to bend other rules.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:35 am

Chip Birks wrote:Did you notice the red print after the first or second sentence on the article you linked to? It says that it is not for toothed wheel applocations. Unless of course EDIS fits into a different category. It seems to bend other rules.
Hi Chip, I did not see that. This is turning into a nightmare. :( Hopefully I’ll get a reply from Brian at TS with an answer soon.
Thanks
Max

Clonebug
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by Clonebug » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:33 pm

Are you running Edis?
If so you have to have the missing tooth pass the vr sensor 90 degrees or nine teeth btdc.
Direct fire is a different beast and can be adjusted somewhat by software.
It can be confusing .
I had Mario set my direct fire but my ms-1 Edis was simple and I did it myself.
I did have the adjustable pulley/toothed wheel combo though.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:44 pm

Clonebug wrote:Are you running Edis?
If so you have to have the missing tooth pass the vr sensor 90 degrees or nine teeth btdc.
Direct fire is a different beast and can be adjusted somewhat by software.
It can be confusing .
I had Mario set my direct fire but my ms-1 Edis was simple and I did it myself.
I did have the adjustable pulley/toothed wheel combo though.
Hi Clonebug,

Yeah the kit is from Mario and I'm running EDIS.

Any idea how I set this up?
Thanks
Max

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trbugman
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by trbugman » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:01 pm

First off are you using a dial-back timing light? If so you need to use the 2 stroke mode if it has it or set the dial it to 0 deg. EDIS runs wasted spark so it sparks once for each revolution unlike a distributor which is once for every 2, this confuses dial-back lights making them think the RPM is double and it will flash at the wrong time.

Unplug the the SAW wire and check the timing. It should read 10 deg, if it doesn't you need to adjust the VR sensor until it does. Once this is set correctly the timing in TunerStudio should match.
2333(103x70) Type 4 DTM MS3+X on 73 Karmann Ghia ignition only with LS2 truck coils firing in sequential, fuel next.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:51 am

trbugman wrote:First off are you using a dial-back timing light? If so you need to use the 2 stroke mode if it has it or set the dial it to 0 deg. EDIS runs wasted spark so it sparks once for each revolution unlike a distributor which is once for every 2, this confuses dial-back lights making them think the RPM is double and it will flash at the wrong time.

Unplug the the SAW wire and check the timing. It should read 10 deg, if it doesn't you need to adjust the VR sensor until it does. Once this is set correctly the timing in TunerStudio should match.
My strobe is the very simple type as in it has no controls or setting that can be changed. The wasted spark makes sense. The timing light was reading double. Ive checked this doing as you say and removed the saw wire. I got 20 deg on the strobe which half of is 10 deg so is bang on.

I then reconnected the saw wire fired it up and the reading are as follows….

strobe was 33 deg = 16.5 deg

Dash was 24 deg

Ign ad table was 24 deg.

TS is 7.5 deg out.

So do I now try and move my sensor up by 7.5 deg or is there a way of adjusting settings of TS?
Thanks
Max

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by Chip Birks » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:27 am

I don't think it should read double, it should simply strobe on both sides of the pulley, the tdc side and the bdc side, but on the same mark.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:46 am

Ok I think I’ve found the fault. My VR sensor wasn’t mounted correctly and was sitting a bit high I think.

Just double checked and strobe reads bang on what TS is saying.

Strobe doesn’t read double tbh it looks normal.

Thanks for all the help guys. :D Now whats next on the list.... :roll:
Thanks
Max

Clonebug
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by Clonebug » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:48 am

You should still disconnect the saw wire and start the engine to see if the Edis module is putting out the limp home mode 10 degrees BTDC.

If the timing light shows 10 degrees and the TS shows the same then you will be ok.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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maxyray
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Re: MS1 and tunerstudio timing problem.

Post by maxyray » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:29 am

Clonebug wrote:You should still disconnect the saw wire and start the engine to see if the Edis module is putting out the limp home mode 10 degrees BTDC.

If the timing light shows 10 degrees and the TS shows the same then you will be ok.
Just checked again with the SAW wire disconnected and it reads on the pulley 10 TDC not BTDC.

Disconnecting the SAW wire has no effect on TS. It reads the same with or without SAW wired up.

Does that sound right?
Thanks
Max

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