Timing light on COPs

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grelland
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Timing light on COPs

Post by grelland » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:39 pm

Guys

After a loooong time, I have finally come to a point where I am trying to get my new 2110 oxyboxer started.

I am using GSXR COPS in wasted spark mode, driven by a pair of coil drivers (eack drivinng two cops)

I get some ignition when cranking, but I fear that I have the angle of the issing tooth set wrong, so I would like to hook up my timimg light to verify, but I get no signal... I also tried to make a short HT lead between the COP and the spark plug and hook the timing light clamp around the lead, but still no luck.

Any good ideas?

Roy

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Chip Birks
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:23 pm

I just put my clamp over the signal wires. Not between the coil and the plug. I have "dumb" coils though. Works really well.

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grelland
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by grelland » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:06 pm

thanks I will try that, I wasnt sure the signals would trigger the lamp

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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Steve Arndt » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:37 pm

Are you trying to drive two coils with 1 ignitor? I'm not sure that will work.

Waste spark with CNP/COP is no problem, but each coil needs its own driver when using "dumb" coils with external ignitors.

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Chip Birks
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:51 pm

Good call Steve. BIPs don't like to drive 2 coils, however one bip can drive 2 cylinders or more if using 1 coil.

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Piledriver
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 pm

You can drive 2 BIPs with one signal (resistors are different than for one)
2 coils w/one switch usually no bueno.
(unless you pull it up to control logic drive coils, that's how I ran my MS2 setup when I switched from dumb coils to LS2 coils, just added 4 1K resistors to 5v.)
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grelland
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by grelland » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:19 am

Thanks guys, I might have to rethink my ignition solution :)

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Piledriver
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:36 am

The much vaunted and mythical IGN4A 4 tower logic drive coil turned out to be a common/inexpensive VW part.
(not much "IGN1" in it other than marketing, but a great coil pack none the less.)
Just saying...
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 01&t=54862

I'd be inclined to find a used OG one from a ~98-01 Beetle/jetta over the millions of Chinese parts, but $40 US is hard to argue with.

also Standard Motor Parts UF-277 for those in NA, for those inclined to simply hit your FLAPS.
(probably still made in China, heck, even the originals might be... but we can pretend)

I don't know if Chrysler products are even sold where you are, but the old ~2003-2005 Neon coils rock pretty hard, and require 2 BIPS to run.

Late model VW COPS are also supposedly not 10K mile coils anymore, but do require a funky logic drive circuit.
Once built each driver can drive 2 coils. I think... (older revisions are horrible pieces of junk)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by subwoofer » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:32 am

There are at least 100 106Bs listed on finndel.no, grelland. So you'll probably find one at the closest scrappie.
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grelland
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by grelland » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:43 am

I just placed an order on a set of LS2's so I hope that will be a better solution

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Piledriver
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:41 am

They work very well but might not be a great choice for high RPM AND waste spark.
(probably not an issue under ~7K)

I have a couple that do not like low dwell (below ~4.2msec@13.2v))
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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grelland
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by grelland » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:37 pm

Short update:

it runs using the COPs. I just needed to find the missing tooth. I was about 50 degrees off.

Cool and thanks for the advice.

I will go for the LS2s anyways, 7k is no issue in this engine ;)

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Piledriver
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Re: Timing light on COPs

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:19 pm

That will do it.

When I initially set up my squareback with MS2, I miseakenly used the 27BTDC timing mark on the fan as TDC.
(The "0" was hiding under some crud, and the timing notch in the t4 fan housing is only ~4mm at widest point)

Ran just fine, no knock, overcool even, but didn't quite respond to timing changes as expected for some reason...

That's when I developed No Fear of experimenting with FAR more timing at maps <~83 KPa.
If it makes more power (lower MAP, less fuel, lower CHT usually) with more timing, it needed it.

RonW came up with an elegant way to mount pairs of LS2 coils (std ones) simply using a little tab and some standoffs/bolts.
ronw-coil-mount.jpg
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Redline Weber

IGN-4A & COP

Post by Redline Weber » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:45 am

FIRST, I have NO idea why PILE"S statements of "mythical, etc" were NOT MODERATED by this forum.
HE has been ORDERED to STOP the slander.

NEXT, this coil IS a common OEM VW aftermarket coil, SOLD by WorldPac, the largest aftermarket parts distribution IN THE WORLD. (mythical?)
The VW dealer "list price" IS $362.00 USD, WP price of 165.00.
This coil we manufacture for WP has both the VW interchange number & my "street" name IGN-4A

Those who have bought this coil directly, at a better price, are given this type of information. (NO BIG SECRET)

I spend time here on this forum to help people, provide good quality products at a LOW price lower than the "normal" street price.

SO I ASK ALL here: Why should MY products receive "SLANDEROUS REMARKS" ?

My method for COP timing light attachment is to "add" a short plug wire between the coil and plug so as the clamp can be attached.

Lance

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Re: IGN-4A & COP

Post by squeakie » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:24 pm

Redline Weber wrote:FIRST, I have NO idea why PILE"S statements of "mythical, etc" were NOT MODERATED by this forum.
HE has been ORDERED to STOP the slander.
...
SO I ASK ALL here: Why should MY products receive "SLANDEROUS REMARKS" ?
...
Lance
I always thought "mythical" was a compliment.

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