MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

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Redline Weber

IGN-8 / twinplugs

Post by Redline Weber » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:34 am

Hi Steve, the Redline ECU-882/IGN-8 can drive eight coils.

You own the ECU-882 that could be used to drive Eight Inductive Coils.

The coils you have, my IGN-FD coil, have about 85mj with medium spark duration.

The phase TABLE should be set 0,9,180,189, 360,369,540,549 for the ignition.
The phase TABLE should be set the same as your best for the Injection Instant.

ALL should understand a "twin-pluged" head is for LOW RPM spark length increase.
The first plug is fired, the second is fired before the first stops sparking.
Thus a LONG cylinder spark duration.

There are MORE benefits, less timing required (6 degrees less), more spark energy, better with domed pistons, continued normal engine operation with coil failure, better MPG, etc.

Lance

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by WLD419 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:16 pm

Ok , I went with MS-II ( Christmas present from wife/ we got it off samba ) , it has 2 drivers , I need to add 2 more drivers or go with QuadSpark , could use a little help in which direction , trying to understand what ignition noise does to ECU ? , I'm going to go with IGN-4 x 2 , need a little help understanding with 4 drivers or quadspark it talks about spark A ,B ,C ,& D , is this sequentsil , anything I need to do to the unit for this ? I also made a heatsink for the 2 addition drivers ( if I go that route ) , thank you in advance Bill D. ,
here's a few pic's ,
Photo12221853 - Copy.jpg
Photo12221859 - Copy.jpg
5120974[1].jpg
3 - Copy.jpg
2 - Copy.jpg
7 - Copy.jpg
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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by Piledriver » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:54 pm

Sweet!
You have multiple options at this point, so it's time to decide some things...

Ignition noise causes mayhem, resets, corrupt tunes, and loss of hair.
I avoid it like the plague and suggest you do the same. :lol: .

MS2extra can do sequential spark, and sequential fuel on a 4 cylinder... (with individual fuel trim)
The sequential spark vs. waste spark really only matters at very high RPM, and probably not even then depending on your coil choice, and based on the previous discussion, waste spark is the plan with two EDIS-ish coils.
(late Neon coils are pretty good and very common if you don't already have them)

Assuming you run 2 EDIS-like 4 tower waste spark coils for your dual plug setup, you only need 2 "control channels" but you need 4 coil drivers. (4 plugs get fired at a time, each using two drivers in pairs)

If you decide to go sequential fuel and have 4 channels of spark drivers, a 4 channel board from http://www.jbperf.com/ in an external box, ~cheap. http://www.jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html high-z injectors only, he makes a peak and hold board for lowZ injectors if needed...

The quad spark is good if you only need 4 channels of spark.

In a perfect world, you would also use one of Hardwyres MS2X-mini boards for easy breakout w/o mods to the mainboard for the sequential fuel, you can have one made for ~$15 or buy the equivalent for ~$80 from Symtech labs.
(The board was actually designed to use an MS3X with an MS2 in an MS3 case)
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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by andy198712 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:46 am

would you mind if i sent you a PM about your dry sump system?

are you set on using megajolt? and now swapping to megasquirt?

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by WLD419 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:18 am

andy198712 wrote:would you mind if i sent you a PM about your dry sump system?

are you set on using megajolt? and now swapping to megasquirt?
No problem :) , as to megajolt , I was kinda on the fence (undecided ) , I haven't been real happy with my vintage CB Quicktune efi , underlying issues ( can explain if asked ) , the more research I did the more I liked the MS system
(more info , more help ,ect. ect.) , future plans after MS ignition is to switch over to ms injection :) , also with MS
I wont need edis-4 ( less wires ,cleaner install, and probably easier for me :wink: ) , thanks Bill D.

ps. Jorge at EMW (EuropeanMotorWorks) Hawthorne Ca., did the Twin Plug conversion ,without welding :) ,

I almost forgot I also have the hall sensor kit already , it will work with MS , but not with MegaJolt :mrgreen: ,
Last edited by WLD419 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by Piledriver » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:47 pm

WLD419 wrote: ps. Jorge at EMW (EuropeanMotorWorks) Hawthorne Ca., did the Twin Plug conversion ,without welding :) ,
Cool, I will be hitting Jorge up for that!
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by WLD419 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:25 pm

Piledriver wrote:Sweet!
You have multiple options at this point, so it's time to decide some things...

Ignition noise causes mayhem, resets, corrupt tunes, and loss of hair.
I avoid it like the plague and suggest you do the same. :lol: .

MS2extra can do sequential spark, and sequential fuel on a 4 cylinder... (with individual fuel trim)
The sequential spark vs. waste spark really only matters at very high RPM, and probably not even then depending on your coil choice, and based on the previous discussion, waste spark is the plan with two EDIS-ish coils.
(late Neon coils are pretty good and very common if you don't already have them)

Assuming you run 2 EDIS-like 4 tower waste spark coils for your dual plug setup, you only need 2 "control channels" but you need 4 coil drivers. (4 plugs get fired at a time, each using two drivers in pairs)

If you decide to go sequential fuel and have 4 channels of spark drivers, a 4 channel board from http://www.jbperf.com/ in an external box, ~cheap. http://www.jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html high-z injectors only, he makes a peak and hold board for lowZ injectors if needed...

The quad spark is good if you only need 4 channels of spark.

In a perfect world, you would also use one of Hardwyres MS2X-mini boards for easy breakout w/o mods to the mainboard for the sequential fuel, you can have one made for ~$15 or buy the equivalent for ~$80 from Symtech labs.
(The board was actually designed to use an MS3X with an MS2 in an MS3 case)


Thanks Pile , sorry if I sound like I don't understand ( I don't , I'm still learning :mrgreen: ) , If it helps this system is
suppose to be MS2extra :) , how does sequential work with the ms2xtra , what mods are required ?,
will it do sequential with quadspark ? also with sequential spark x2 4 tower coils it wouldn't be wasted spark? :? ,
I also want to be able to twist it to 7000-7500 rpm (long winded cam :twisted: ) what would be the best or better
setup to yield a strong enough spark ? sorry for newbie in training questions :lol: , which coils would best help &
the sequential board or the quadspark ? I appreciate the help , thanks in advance Bill D.
Bill DeWitt
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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by Piledriver » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:04 am

Sequential fuel and play with injection timing is mostly helpful at idle>midrange.
(Think "good manners")
The individual fuel trims are probably most helpful on a tightly strung motor.

You are not likely to see any pkHP gain from sequential fuel or spark, but it's good for emissions, fuel economy and drivability in various degrees.

MS2-extra lacks ignition timing trim per cylinder. MS3 has it, but the twinspark leading/trailing code has not been implemented for non-rotary engines as of this time, so the "perfect" setup out of the box is just out of reach.
OTOH, if someone actually had a use for it, the devs have said they could probably just reuse the existing rotary trailing code to do the deed.

On MS2-extra, a few items on the mainboard need removed so the pins for inj1>inj4 can be wired out to drivers.
You can't use the onboard injector drivers as such on (sequential fuel) MS2-extra, can be rewired for PWM IAC or such
w/MS3 can be used for GP drivers or staged injection.

The jumper wiring and board mods etc can seem a bit overwhelming but it's really quite straightforward.
http://jbperf.com/sequential/index.html

An ms2x-mini (or an MS3) actually takes care of all the wiring and component mods and has all the config jumpers for ~any option you can imagine.(meant to work with an MS3X, $90, needs MS3 case, ~$40 or creative work, can also just be wired out to other circuits as needed)

You need a 4 channel injector driver so they all match, and a 4 channel coil driver if you want to go COPS or CNP, or in your case twinspark via waste spark.

If you go with logic level COPs or CNP (ala LS2 coils ir IGN1A) you do not technically require additional drivers for that.

The MS3X has 8 injector drivers, 8 logic level buffers for ignition and a herd of mid current drivers for anything that's left, as well as more goesintas and goesouttas than an MS2 can use.

The MS2X-mini board was designed to be a inexpensive adapter to allow use of an MS3X driver board, and for those who have a MS2 but plan on eventually going MS3, uses the MS3 case and MS3X driver board.

You do not actually require two wheel sensors (cam and crank) to go sequential: A missing tooth wheel in the distributor also works.(my current setup is a Mallory Unilite with a 16-1 wheel as sole timing source)

Lets get down to it as to RPM: How do the heads flow?
huge motors need huge head$$$ to rev high...

A 2.8L is going to need ~240+ CFM intakes to be doing anything terribly useful at 7500 RPM.

But: There's really no need to see high revs to have stupid transaxle killing torque.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Redline Weber

MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by Redline Weber » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:25 pm

WHY MAKE YOUR LIFE HARD, When you fit TWO IGN-4A coils, one per engine side, your requirements WILL be met.

First remove the two coil drivers, short pin one to the pad (Pile to verify).
Next tie each channel to the correct four coils, waste spark.
Mount and wire coils, attach spark plug wires.
CHANGE calibration by decreasing advance by SIX degrees.

What you get is EIGHT coils, NO reverse spark polarity and HIGH RPM.

Lance
Last edited by Redline Weber on Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by WLD419 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:39 pm

Piledriver wrote:Sequential fuel and play with injection timing is mostly helpful at idle>midrange.
(Think "good manners")
The individual fuel trims are probably most helpful on a tightly strung motor.

You are not likely to see any pkHP gain from sequential fuel or spark, but it's good for emissions, fuel economy and drivability in various degrees.

MS2-extra lacks ignition timing trim per cylinder. MS3 has it, but the twinspark leading/trailing code has not been implemented for non-rotary engines as of this time, so the "perfect" setup out of the box is just out of reach.
OTOH, if someone actually had a use for it, the devs have said they could probably just reuse the existing rotary trailing code to do the deed.

On MS2-extra, a few items on the mainboard need removed so the pins for inj1>inj4 can be wired out to drivers.
You can't use the onboard injector drivers as such on (sequential fuel) MS2-extra, can be rewired for PWM IAC or such
w/MS3 can be used for GP drivers or staged injection.

The jumper wiring and board mods etc can seem a bit overwhelming but it's really quite straightforward.
http://jbperf.com/sequential/index.html

An ms2x-mini (or an MS3) actually takes care of all the wiring and component mods and has all the config jumpers for ~any option you can imagine.(meant to work with an MS3X, $90, needs MS3 case, ~$40 or creative work, can also just be wired out to other circuits as needed)

You need a 4 channel injector driver so they all match, and a 4 channel coil driver if you want to go COPS or CNP, or in your case twinspark via waste spark.

If you go with logic level COPs or CNP (ala LS2 coils ir IGN1A) you do not technically require additional drivers for that.

The MS3X has 8 injector drivers, 8 logic level buffers for ignition and a herd of mid current drivers for anything that's left, as well as more goesintas and goesouttas than an MS2 can use.

The MS2X-mini board was designed to be a inexpensive adapter to allow use of an MS3X driver board, and for those who have a MS2 but plan on eventually going MS3, uses the MS3 case and MS3X driver board.

You do not actually require two wheel sensors (cam and crank) to go sequential: A missing tooth wheel in the distributor also works.(my current setup is a Mallory Unilite with a 16-1 wheel as sole timing source)

Lets get down to it as to RPM: How do the heads flow?
huge motors need huge head$$$ to rev high...

A 2.8L is going to need ~240+ CFM intakes to be doing anything terribly useful at 7500 RPM.

But: There's really no need to see high revs to have stupid transaxle killing torque.

Hello Pile , Thank You very much for input & words , I guess I got a lot more reading & absorbing to do to understanding :mrgreen: , as for the rpm ,I stretched it a bit, 6800 rpm would be fine :) , I feel this heads
along with the pauter cam will help me get closer to my goal :) , as for the trans it's a 901 and what I was looking
for is to be able to twist it a bit more between gears to help rpm drop , this a weekend ( & sometime weekday ) therapy car :) , Thanks again Bill D. , here's a link to some more picture's ( 914 world )


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php? ... 25696&st=0
Bill DeWitt
2800cc 914-4
Weekend Therapy
soon to be TwinPlugs & MegaSquirted

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by WLD419 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:52 pm

Redline Weber wrote:WHY MAKE YOUR LIFE HARD, When you fit TWO IGN-4A coils, one per engine side, your requirements WILL be met.

First remove the two coil drivers, short pin one to the pad (Pile to verify).
Next tie each channel to the correct four coils, waste spark.
Mount and wire coils, attach spark plug wires.
CHANGE calibration by decreasing advance by SIX degrees.

What you get is EIGHT coils, NO reverse spark polarity and HIGH RPM.

Lance

Hello Lance ,
Cool I like the idea of the IGN-4A coils , I've looked for them , can't find , maybe need to message them at DIYautotune & ask them about them :) , would apprieciate any inside line (connection ) to obtaining any info on them :) , thank you very much Bill D.

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Re: MegaJolt ? / twinplugs

Post by Piledriver » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:53 pm

Redline Weber wrote:WHY MAKE YOUR LIFE HARD, When you fit TWO IGN-4A coils, one per engine side, your requirements WILL be met.

First remove the two coil drivers, short pin one to the pad (Pile to verify).
Next tie each channel to the correct four coils, waste spark.
Mount and wire coils, attach spark plug wires.
CHANGE calibration by decreasing advance by SIX degrees.

What you get is EIGHT coils, NO reverse spark polarity and HIGH RPM.

Lance
That would be an ideal setup if he does not already have coils or drivers.

Contact Lance (Redline Weber) or DIYAutotune via emai for info, seems the IGN4A does exist but noone has them listed online for some reason. Also ask Lance about his 009 based drop in 24-1 trigger setup.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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