New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

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Piledriver
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:40 pm

luftvagon wrote:10 degrees on the ignition map?
Top right of the pic you posted, you already have 10 degrees set, just need to set "fixed advance" vs "use table"

If the wheel is being seen properly with no lossage (view the composite so you can see if it misses) this might also be a great time to try out the diagnostic functions that going direct fire provides...

You can tell it to fire coil A 5000 times, or various injectors etc.

Tip:
Pull your pump fuse and pull your plugs out while jacking with this, saves your battery and starter.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:16 pm

I was having loss of sync reason 2 couple of days ago when i tested the sensor. i guess its likely this is still the reason why its not starting.

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:19 am

I'd probably try moving the sensor closer, or play with the pots if you have a V3 board.
The red shows sync errors. (teeth or lack thereof where expected)

A low battery can cause issues.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:52 am

I can only move the sensor left right a bit, and even then, I have no clue how far off it is.. I would have to drop the engine and take all the tin apart to see.
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:45 pm

you should be able to get a reasonable estimate of the gap using an Allen wrench, as long as you pass the flats through.

It may be more sensitive with the tips crossing the center of the sensor.

Once I got mine close enough it didn't care.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:31 pm

You don't have any of the solder bridges in place on the Microsquirt board by chance do you?

When testing the trigger wheel on my bench, if the sensor was closer to the root of the teeth it was less sensitive and needed to be closer to the sensor. Same went for the tips of the teeth.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:03 pm

Got it fixed. Took the hall sensor mount off, and re positioned it. unfortunately i could not use the washers provided because they were limiting the movement of mount, and i could not get close enough.... anyway.. i got it close to ~3mm, and she came to life immediately. took it for a 10 mile ride, and 0 loss of sync.

Idle is now at 40kpa versus 50kpa with the distributor.

Here is my current, somewhat conservative ignition timing map. I am afraid my ear is not tuned to hear "knocks". I do have a knock sensor purchased and on hand, but that will have to wait.

Image

I copied Bosch SVDA ignition curve to start off.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:19 pm

Cool!

The perfect nuts for those brackets would be like the steel CB hex drive nuts with a ~10mm hex OD.
.. another 3mm of offset is probably a better plan on the next run.
That sensor needs to be <=1/8" and it's happier at half that.
luftvagon wrote: I copied Bosch SVDA ignition curve to start off.
You forgot the vacuum can action :lol:

You can lean on the advance pretty hard under ~83 KPa.
Think of it as "how much advance would I need at WOT ...in Denver"

I have found that idle advance has a lot to do with idle CHT, or at least how fast it heats up.
less advance, heats up faster.

My ignition map is actually pretty conservative IMHO, the only thing remotely weird about my setup is the 2L heads on a 1.8.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:52 pm

luftvagon wrote:Got it fixed. Took the hall sensor mount off, and re positioned it. unfortunately i could not use the washers provided because they were limiting the movement of mount, and i could not get close enough.... anyway.. i got it close to ~3mm, and she came to life immediately. took it for a 10 mile ride, and 0 loss of sync.
Great! I wonder if I can find a smaller OD 8mm washer to match the nut better.
Piledriver wrote:The perfect nuts for those brackets would be like the steel CB hex drive nuts with a ~10mm hex OD.
.. another 3mm of offset is probably a better plan on the next run.
That sensor needs to be <=1/8" and it's happier at half that.
The new brackets have more offset from the beta you got. I made the slots longer to bring the sensor closer. I am including the exhaust nuts and a set of washers :)
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:02 pm

MarioVelotta wrote:
Great! I wonder if I can find a smaller OD 8mm washer to match the nut better.
The cv joint washers they used to sell would be perfect.
(size-wise)
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:42 pm

square washers could do the trick?
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:08 pm

luftvagon wrote:square washers could do the trick?
Interesting. That never crossed my mind.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Devastator » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:36 pm

Look up the Mil Spec washers in McMaster Carr. They are held to much closer tolerances than SAE washers are.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:44 pm

I was thinking a socket cap washer would be the best, but I'll look into the Mil Spec stuff as well.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:06 pm

My ignition map is actually pretty conservative IMHO, the only thing remotely weird about my setup is the 2L heads on a 1.8.
Is that a conservative ignition map? :shock: If so, I don't know what to call mine :wink:
Do you run it really lean below 83kpa?

What is your idle advance?

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