New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

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Rikard
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:07 am

Pile, would you say that this setup is better than your previous solution?
I need another trigger wheel setup and thought that your previous setup was the best I've seen so far.

Thanks
Rikard
1977 Bus, 2.0L Type 4 engine, webcam 107i
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Piledriver
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:36 pm

It is a little smoother cranking/lugging (low RPM) vs the 6/1.
No show stopper either way, above ~idle speed no real difference.

On stock cooling, you are safe from a belt toss with either setup since the fan etc protects the sensor.

If you plan to use AC (or drive anything else) off the crank, the behind the fan location makes it ~impossible with stock cooling.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:02 pm

Is the final product ready?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
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Rikard
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:10 pm

I really think that the 6/1 setup is slick and easy to maintain, but the drawback is that a cam trigger is needed.
Is it possible to plug one of the holes so it will be a 6-1 ?

/rikard
1977 Bus, 2.0L Type 4 engine, webcam 107i
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Piledriver
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:14 pm

Rikard wrote:I really think that the 6/1 setup is slick and easy to maintain, but the drawback is that a cam trigger is needed.
Is it possible to plug one of the holes so it will be a 6-1 ?

/rikard
Sure, but i'd probably drill 5 more and make a 12-1, ~infinitely easier to create than remove holes.
Also would bring the cranking//low RPM accuracy up to snuff.
(It's really not noticeable unless you slap on a higher tooth count wheel to compare)

If you want sequential COPs or full sequential you need the sync, but you can always add that later.

The primary practical advantage of full sequential on MS2 or MS3 is it gives you per-cylinder tweak tables for fuel (and timing(ms3))
On a high strung motor, that could make a big difference, but with a DD NA setup, not so much.

Note that we are hijacking Minis thread with a non-product.
(although I bet he could make up some of the needed case plugs pretty cheap)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Rikard
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:52 pm

Sorry for the hijacking Mario :oops:

A couple thread related questions :)

I don't understand what
to rotate the mount for VR use
means? Rotate how?

I was under the impression that a hall sensor was best to handle trigger wheels with lower teeth counts like 12 teeth or so, but this trigger wheel is a 36-1. The sensor that Pile is testing is a hall sensor, right? So I guess I have misunderstood something.

Can someone please enlighten me?

/rikard
1977 Bus, 2.0L Type 4 engine, webcam 107i
MS2 Extra, direct fire EDIS Coil

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:33 pm

Hall sensors are even used on 720 tooth setups in some distributors, they are not remotely as noise sensitive as VRs and generally work even at "0" RPM. (turning by hand, although SOME advanced hall sensors on the market do NOT work to zero, intentionally)

VRs are seldom used in newer cars.

I suspect Mario was referring to a different bracket

The pics are of a Hall.
It only needed a gap on the lower end of the spec to work well.

I have a particularly "interesting" setup as I am doing everything completely wrong, running the "toothed wheel" through the opto circuit, running MS3/MS3X on a V2.2 mainboard. (It worked on V1.01 mainboard, almost went there but the v2.2 required ~no wiring hacks to run signals out, has jumper pads)

I see no high RPM retard from it as you would expect, nor with the previous 5v Neon hall setup on the fly"wheel", although I will say the 12v hall with the built in pullup probably provides a somewhat cleaner signal.
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luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:57 pm

sounds to me, hall sensor is the way to go.
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Rikard
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:09 pm

Thanks Pile!

It seems that the Honeywell sensor that I have checked out was not a good example of suitable sensor.
What sensor are Mario using?
Do you think it would be possible to fit the sensor bracket without removing the fan housing on a type4 with stock cooling?

/rikard
1977 Bus, 2.0L Type 4 engine, webcam 107i
MS2 Extra, direct fire EDIS Coil

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:41 pm

Rikard wrote:Thanks Pile!

It seems that the Honeywell sensor that I have checked out was not a good example of suitable sensor.
What sensor are Mario using?
Do you think it would be possible to fit the sensor bracket without removing the fan housing on a type4 with stock cooling?

/rikard
Marios sensor is sourced from DIYAutotune.
It has an internal 12v pullup.

The pictures on the first page ~ post 17 are of the install in my 73 squareback with a T4 swap, on a 914 it might be interesting unless you had a lift or pit for stand up access to the fan area. On a "natural T4" (411/412/72+ Bus) it would be NBD.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:25 am

:idea: are where there yet? :mrgreen:
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:37 pm

Sorry to keep you guys waiting... I took the info Pile has given me and made some corrections.

Thicker center hub area so it doesn't fall in the radii of the hub,

Image

More adjustment in the brackets,

Image

I added a counter balance hole to make up for the missing tooth,

Image

Made an angle adjustment of the teeth so it shoulg get everyone within +/- a degree of 80° for the tooth #1 angle. Original on top.

Image

So I think we are ready!

Image
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Rikard
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Rikard » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:19 pm

Mario, can you please post a link to the trigger wheel and bracket on your store? I can't find it in your store.

Thanks,
Rikard
1977 Bus, 2.0L Type 4 engine, webcam 107i
MS2 Extra, direct fire EDIS Coil

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:58 pm

I have to so some work to my store, they just updated the interface and now everything is screwed up.

In the mean time, if you can email me at Mario@thedubshop.net I can get an invoice sent over to you!

Thanks :)
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1600dp - 18sec @ 0psi :lol:
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luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:25 pm

I can't wait for my kit.
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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