New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

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MarioVelotta
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New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am

I need a tester or 2 for this new design. It should work with or without factory cooling. I have it setup for a hall sensor but just need to rotate the mount for VR use. I may make it dual purpose just so I don't have to get 2 brackets made.

You must have a currently running setup and be willing to dig right in once I get them and give your full report here once installed. A couple different brands of engine management would be great. Please PM me if interested.

Thanks!

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Redline Weber

Type 4 Trigger Wheel : Crankshaft End Float

Post by Redline Weber » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:43 am

What is a commonly seen crankshaft End Float amount ?

The specification for the Type IV engine you use with your CT design should be no greater that .002".

Lance

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MarioVelotta
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Re: Type 4 Trigger Wheel : Crankshaft End Float

Post by MarioVelotta » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Redline Weber wrote:What is a commonly seen crankshaft End Float amount ?

The specification for the Type IV engine you use with your CT design should be no greater that .002".

Lance
The engine I'm working with has .0047" of end play. The sensor I will be using can run a gap of 5 mm max .196" so I will be within spec.

Here is proto #1 for a visual

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luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:09 am

Looks bad ass.. Sign me up as a buyer, once you get it working.
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by MarioVelotta » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:45 am

Here is anther pic. I'll have a another set tomorrow, mad some more revisions.

Proto #2
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:07 pm

Looking good. Any clearance issues with the housing and engine tin?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:34 pm

I run ~.007" end play with an axial mount sensor and a hall, no issues.
It's not like wheel runout where it will be changing rapidly and constantly.
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luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Fri May 24, 2013 7:21 am

Mario, is it ready yet?
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Fri May 24, 2013 10:08 am

It looks even better than shown in the pics, will be installing/testing this long weekend on my Square with MS3...
...After I get some much needed beauty sleep. :lol:
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

Hummel
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Hummel » Sat May 25, 2013 2:54 pm

Does any of you ever have problem with heat when the sensor is mounted unter the engine tin ?
I'm currently not running MS but I have the system and now I just preparing to do the job

Sorry the off topic

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Sat May 25, 2013 5:03 pm

My current sensor is mounted in the bell housing, so it sees ~oil temperature or thereabouts constantly.

SOME available sensors are probably not rated for use at elevated temps, but Mario is aware of that and chose wisely for his kits. (it should be ~no issue on any T4 as this particular kit is for)

Off to the car wash so I can have a ~clean engine for installation pics...
EDIT: ...And as the first spray of tire cleaner erupts from the nozzle
The heavens open as if in sympathy.

I'll need gills to do it tonight after ~4" of rain last night.
(It had surprisingly just dried out enough to be doable)

Supposed to clear up later tonight through Monday, so still happenin.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

luftvagon
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by luftvagon » Sun May 26, 2013 5:04 am

:arrow: update :?:
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI

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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Sun May 26, 2013 1:13 pm

Still waiting for things to dry out a bit, I work nights so I'm just dragging my ass out of bed.
Looks like it should be pretty straightforward, though, quality bits.

Update@1840:
Still muddy at 1400 hrs, The Boss decided she wanted to do some shopping.
Established that:
Max load of the square is 24 Cu. Ft. of wet mulch
(4 cu ft in the frunk)
square-max-load.jpg
Driveway seems dried out, real work commencing shortly.
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I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Piledriver
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Sun May 26, 2013 11:36 pm

luftvagon wrote::arrow: update :?:
Was finally allowed to stop digging holes for plants at dark, then I got to work.

I'll just say I spent more time taking pictures than installing it, Kudos, Mario, VERY well designed piece.
(When I got this last week, I had completely forgotten about this thread and was looking to put the sensor on the other side... :lol: )

Fan housing does NOT have to come off, although it helps to pull the alternator, which takes me ~30 seconds.
(just to swing it out of the way for top bolt access)
If you have GOOD access to get at that top bolt (Bus, upright conversion, T3 conversion like mine) this is VERY EASY to install. On a 914, it might be ...interesting to do with the fan housing in place.

I have not fired it, will have to wait for morning to avoid pissing off the neighbors as I try to grab a trigger log at redline :twisted: , but modern hall sensors are a lot more than dumb sensors, they have a little built-in processor and do automatic gain control and signal fitting, so they have a WIDE range, vs older gen units as you might find on an OEM ride that have a very narrow spec range or you get junk for signal.


First: I am not an auto mechanic, I DO fix strange and interesting things for a living, but not cars.
I tend to look for the easiest, good way to do things.

My square has the rear valence cut off--- not much loss, as a PO had folded it back to install a header.
I just finished the job with a cut off wheel.
With the bumper in place, unless you know what to look for, it's invisible at 60 MPH.

Also, some may notice the Vanagon fan housing... Has no relevance on sensor install other than the easy-yank GM alternator setup.

All of the above makes maintenance on a T4 swap ~trivial, as you will see...

Full view, to see what we have to work with, exhaust pulled for ease of access: Take off 3 long 8mm nuts, fan intake adapter pulls off, easy access.(The wrench... was just about to take the nut off when I remembered to grab the camera) Adapter and bellow can stay in place if replacing fan belt, just have to pull the 3 "long nuts"
(5/16" standoffs tapped out to 6mm).
full-view.JPG
Next, bracket in place with sensor, fits like someone spent serious time getting it right:

Note: To get the top nut back on the bolt, the alt needs to get out of the way so you can hold the nut with needle noses while spinning the bolt.
Real Men superglue the nut to their finger. :twisted:

You also want to spooge around those bolts/stud with some sealant, as the bracket may not seal enough to be 100% drip free. RTV will do, the anaerobic thread sealant or anaerobic case goo should work as well.
Do BOTH ENDS of the bolt if possible.
bracket-sensor-installed.JPG
Finally, wheel pressed on-- really tight fit on rusty old hub, in a good way, zero play.
Fits perfectly on a clean/new hub.
Being lazy, I simply pressed it on with the fan. Spending some quality time with a SS wire brush and some anti-sieze might be a better plan (and I will do so in the AM when I pop it all fully back together and stretch the wires)
wheel-over-sensor.JPG
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel

Post by Piledriver » Mon May 27, 2013 7:22 pm

Sorry for the delay in updates, has been a long day...
I had my setup with an internal 5v pullup for the late Neon hall sensor, and this sensor from all indications has it's own internal 12v pullup, and it absolutely would not play ball with both pullups wired in.

I use the opto, as I'm running on a v2.2 board, which actually works fine with a Hall sensor, but you`re absolutely on your own for documentation... MS3 documentation is 100% written with a V3 mainboard in mind.

I'm perfectly fine with that, but MS3 on a v1.01 or v2.2 is absolutely not recommended for folks unless you are an ancient electronics tech or know all the various mainboard schematics and docs by rote.

In any case, after a 3 hour search and destroy mission I finally found my box of goodies (Jimstim, resistors, misc electronic stuff) that I haven't looked at since I installed the MS3 last year, and all is now configured for a 12v Hall sensor w/external pullup, and working on the Jimstim with a 36-1 wheel.

Now to go figure out the timing offset. (first, look for the timing light I haven't used in months... :lol: )
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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