Welcome to Electrical - Intros, Sources & Guidelines

[doc]

For as long as I’ve owned STF, there have been requests to initiate an Electrical Forum. A forum dedicated to providing solutions to the electrical systems in each of our cars. Whether you have a vintage restoration, a daily driver, a drag car, a sand rail, a 411, Thing or 914, you’ve got an electrical system. Until now, electrical posts have been scattered throughout STF, often making it difficult to find answers to questions that have been addressed many times before. Our new forum will begin to collect this knowledge base in one forum.

While we are going to leave the most of the stereo, video and Ipod system stuff over in the Interior and Sound Forum, all other electrical issues will find a home in STF’s new Electrical Forum.

So alternators, generators, starters, distributors, coils, lights, regulators, remote hook ups, idiot lights – bring ‘em on. The new electrical forum is ready to tackle it! Our new moderators, 2088 bob and MNAirhead, have promised a forum dedicated to quality information which will extend a welcome to all the different interests within our hobby and all different levels of expertise. BTW, we’ve arranged, in advance, to have few “resident experts” hanging around.

So, please welcome our new moderators and have a great time in ShopTalkForum’s new Electrical Forum.

doc
STF Admin

[MNAirHead]

WELCOME TO THE ELECTRICAL FORUM
BACKGROUND
Like many of you, electrical has always been a challenging end of VWs. Often times it’s the part where the “mystery” stuff happens. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve chased the wrong problem and had it turn out to be a simple connection or switch error. Over the years, I’ve been stopped countless times for lights that didn’t work. My wife has towed me home because the battery went dead. Chances are I’ve been the single biggest woodtick about getting a forums started.

INTRODUCTIONS
The neat thing about starting a forum from scratch is that we can list prior barriers and plan around them. We have some cool stuff lined up. Bob2088 is versed in all types of hot rod rewiring and has agreed to moderate and chime in for the toughest of questions. DesertGuy has the ability to create some incredible drawings (that are easy to understand). David58bug has agreed to help us create a useful archive. We all have been helped by forum veteran SpeedyJim (http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/) --- he’ll be guiding us through common issues and restoration barriers.

ELECTRICAL – NOT AUDIO
To help keep us on task, we’ll focus this forum on “running system” (alt/gen/dizzy/etc) and “running gear” (lights/gauges/wipers/etc) electrical issues. We will not allow audio (stereo) threads on this forum since there’s already a STF forum for this - The Interior and Sound Forum . Discussion of audio/video components, both wiring and opinions on individual components will be best served in that forum.

SEARCH & HALL OF FAME
Over the course of time, we’ll create a long information log. We request that you add to existing threads before starting new ones. The “best of the best” will be logged in a “Hall of Fame” thread. Please post one succinct thread and let the pros reply. Please do not double post to other STF Forums. You may have to wait a little while for a response, but you’ll get one.

RULES
We would like to keep this forum very straight forward and on task.

• 1-NO Swearing – If you wouldn’t say it in front of your mother, don’t say it.
  2-Keep it Positive (no personal rants or attacks)
  3-Single Topic Posts (one question per thread) – Don’ hijack. Just start another thread.
  4-No Audio Opinion Topics – Post to the Interior and Sound Forum.
  5-Opinions are ok, but should be supported by facts.
  6-Selling Items --- http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=6 Is the best link for posting your stuff... OR try a PM directly to the targeted user.

We hope this forum helps you with your dub.

[scott the viking]

I really am glad this is up....SOOO many guys do not understand even the basics of an automotive electric system...I think this will go a long way.

[Tom Notch]

Kool, a sparkie home.

may the E M Force be with you.



spagetti Os

[2088 bob]

Just a quick note to everyone,I am very impressed from what I have seen here so far.We have a very strong and varied knowledge base and many very talented people . A group of people I am very proud to be associated with . I am positive that with this assembled group of individuals there is not one wiring issue regarding our hobby that we will not be able to overcome

[MNAirHead]

Now that I have some dedicated time to the content.. have a few things to pass along..

Suggested VW Information Sources



How to Build a Dune Buggy-- has some of the easiest non-tech diagragms in print



Automotive Electric Handbook -- goes through basic theory.. many of the simple diagragms are VW based



BugMeVideo #10- Shows a loom install



VW Trends - Color codes for each wire (Primedia Publication)
VW Trends October 2002....pgs. 57-59.



Bentley Factory Manual- This will have model specific information for your VW... Unfortuantely some of the books are about $200



SPEEDY Jim's Site - Best external website on electrical common questions... this would should be in everyone's favorites

http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

[MNAirHead]

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

[Piledriver]

Not sure if this is the "right" spot, but these are handy little fuse/relay/transorb boxes for wiring up your delicate electronics.
Decent seller, too, based on a few dealings with them...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... &viewitem=

[Eric3501]

Sure hope this section still active, last post being 2010 on my tablet anyway....Ok here goes. 1. I'mean a new Brunswick to VW's 2. I'very bitten off a whole lot to chew for a new Brunswick to start with, but a person wants what he/she wants. Here'she my delema I need help with. I have a 1977 std beetle being turned into a baja bug for mainly the street and light, extremely light trail rides. The fuel injection components ( electrical) are shot.). I am putting in a DTM type 4 engine. I asked on an other forum and was told to remove the f/I wiring harness as it'stands pretty well self contained, at the same time told to remove jumper wire 88z from 88y. Please correct me if i'my wrong here but aren'the both of those in the ECM box that would be removed Anyway? The type 4 I am getting is already carburated, so wouldn'the it need to be wired up as per pre electronic ignition like around 1967 or so...Please help if you can. Thank you. Eric

[Piledriver]

Welcome to the STF, Eric.

Were you trying to say it was originally from from New Brunswick? (Canada)?
Is it a swing axle or IRS? (Does it have CV joints on the axles)

It will probably be wired much like a std 74 model , which were an actual thing in the USA.
If you need to see the EFI wiring, the 76?-77-78 Supers had it. (German version, the Mexican version differs not sure what they had in Canada)

The FI wiring harness is pretty much stand alone, so it should be no big deal in any case.

A T4 is a good plan, I have one in my squareback, and I put one in my sons 71 super.

[Eric3501]

Hello Everyone,
I must apologize for the previous post, not to make excuses, but I failed to proof read it for one reason or another.
No, to the best of my knowledge my car was made in Germany. It is still a 1977 standard beetle. Body has the normal aches and pains of a 40 year old...the wiring and ecu, double relay are shot. I am going to make a wide-eye baja bug for the street and light trail riding. I am taking the fuel injection mess out and installing a dual carburated 2.0 ltr type IV that's Neenah converted to upright cooling.
What I was having a hard time getting a grip on is, on an other sight, I was told that the wireing for the fuel injection system is pretty self contained, but in the removal I needed to cut the red wire that jumped from 88z to 88y. From what I see on what schematics I can find, those are both in the plug to the double relay, which I do not need for the carberated type IV.
There are a couple wires I have to leave frome the type I system so the type IV will start and charge and do everything it'seems supposed to. Can anyone please straighten me out/ help me here. This will be my daily driver.....I know others have done these swapped and everything worked great. Please help if you can and or will.

Thank you for any and all help in advance. Eric.

[Piledriver]

Its probably far less complicated than you think...
The only wiring hell in these cars was the "diagnostic" wiring.
They were simple beasts.

A late car will have an alternator, which has power straight off the battery via the starter, a ground wire, and the alternator and oil pressure idiot light wires.
The alt regulators were usually internal.

I'll make a WAG and say the original black "carbed" ignition power wire still runs back there and runs the back up lights (at least), and the 2 color wires for the idiot lights are certainly still there.
Its possible, even likely the "ignition" feed is feeding the double relay but I'd have to look on a late model schematic.

Those 5 wires (3 to the alt (bat, idiot and gnd), coil power/oil pressure idiot) are all you need for a carbed engine with a coil and alternator.

I suggest you use the "Ignition" keyed power to control a fused relay fed direct off the alt to power the ignition, ignition works much better on full power. (same for the headlights, using the existing wiring under the dash as controls only)

Your 77 std must have been a gray mkt car (as only 1303 based convertibles were imported in 77) , but you should be able to find the matching schematics for a 77, just need to sort if it was originally Canadian or European spec.
Being Canadian origin/spec is likely, it would still be German manufacture either way.

[Eric3501]

Hello piledriver,
I'must not real sure where it was manufactured. The sticker in the door says Germany, but that could be just where Volkswagon gimp is located. Being a '77 it has the IRS rear suspension, and the ball joint front suspension. I ordered a carbed type IV engine and put 3/4 OF WHAT HE WANTED FOR IT DOWN AND WILL FINISH paying for it and the shipping on the first of the month...On Social. Sec. Disability and VA Pension...so things are a bit slow....still working on getting engine out, and trying to do some body work done at same time...I think I need to concentrate on one thing at a time instead of going to many directions at once and getting confused.
Did check the brake mastercylinder for leaks, even checked in the foot well (pedal assembly removed), and found none or signs of any. Not sure why previous owner had it on hand. I also got a steering gearbox too. Steering wheel has a massive amount of play in it but read somewhere on one of the forums, I think, on how to adjust it some. Some of the play could be worn ball joints, and have plans of replacing them,( left top one boot is torn, and no signs of much grease in being used anywhere on suspension....). One question I do have is i'm not sure if the type 4 has a mechanical fuel pump or not, and would like the electric one as a back up even if it does. My question is how to wire it so it only runs (pumps), when the engine is cranking or actually running. Using a test light, I checked the wires on the old one, and zippo , Natta, nothing whether the key was in the on position, or actually crankingoing the engine....I do have a much lower pressure fuel pump that's actually for carbs.... any help, suggestions are always welcome. Thank you again. Eric

[Piledriver]

Some T4s had carbs 1700s in Busses, maybe some 1800. Those had mechanical fuel pumps.
Was more common in Europe and for a longer period IIRC.
All T4s have the FP boss cast in at the flywheel end under #1 IIRC but few were actually machined for it.
Typically you run the carbed fuel pump off the ignition, or at least control the FP relay with it.

Pump and filter goes under the tank, replace all the hose (front and rear) with new multi-fuel hose and Ideal FI hose clamps, they cost the same and don't chew the hose or leak.

Don't forget to also replace the flex coupling in the steering with a stock type, no urethane, safety issue.
Urethane is to generally be avoided with very few specific uses, esp not anything in shear.
The black graphite/moly loaded urethane bushings work OK IME for suspension bushings but that's the only real use.
The red urethane bushings/motor mounts/steering couplings avoid at all costs, even if free.

[Eric3501]

Thank you for the info...looks like I have a couple of weeks to get as much work done on this as possible. I got word yesterday a matter came up in the family that's going to have me away for a couple months...but can't be helped...not a total bad thing though as it gives me time to figure a lot of things out on what exactly needs to be done and how to go about getting it done. Then brave the cool temps of Jan. on here in N.W. Florida to get it done. Don't want to rush it too much as I want a reliable daily driver when finished. Not looking for a show car type finish but something respectable and not just thrower together either. Will definitely need some sort of heater thoghts when I get back as i'llleagals be/ have been doing all this in a 10'x17' horrible freight garage tent. It keeps the wind off but not the cold, or heat as that goes...thank you again for the help and guidence, I really do appreciate the help. I'll in touch as i'my sure more advice and guidance will be needed along the way. Eric