Swing mount pedals

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juki
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Swing mount pedals

Post by juki » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:49 pm

I'm looking for ideas for mounting swing mount clutch/brake pedal assembly.

I'd like to see close-up pics of how to mount them.
I don't have my floorpan at the moment so I can't check if the available pedals are short enough to mount them with stock steering column or can they be mounted forward enough to be close to stock position.

I have seen Wilwood pedal assembly neatly done on one of the cars which is for sale on Oldbug.com.
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Marc
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Marc » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:35 pm

It takes substantial reinforcement of the trunk floor to provide a solid anchor for top-mounted pedals. Most cars which come with them tie the mounting points into the steering column so you're less likely to notice the flexure that comes when big-legging the brakes...the column/wheel move along with the pedal mount, so the perceived motion is similar to normal changes in seat-cushion compression. Easier/cheaper to build that way than to make the pedal mount rock-solid.
If you're doing this on a racecar you might consider tying the pedal mount into the rollcage; downside to that is if you take a big front-end hit it'll be more work to repair...but if your bumper system is properly designed to progressively collapse that won't be an issue until you have much bigger problems to worry about ;)

uglydog56
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by uglydog56 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:02 pm

In my mustang I just sandwiched a piece of thick sheet metal between the assembly and the firewall and had no flexing.

uglydog56
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by uglydog56 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:08 pm

I guess mine were firewall mount not top mount. My setup was way simpler and cleaner than that. Just tape the template where you want the pedals, drill some holes, and go.

juki
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by juki » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:41 pm

It will be a street/strip car, but I prefer to have swing pedals.
If I'll end up doing this it will be tied into the rollcage if possible, if not then mounting points will reinforced otherwise.
One thing I don't like about reverse swing mount pedals is the reverse mount master cylinders, but with stock steering column there's not enough room for forward facing double master cylinders, but the tandem cylinder is then and option.

Saw this on germanlook forums, still unfinished in this pic, but pretty much what I'm looking for.

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Jadewombat
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Jadewombat » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:27 am

My old super from a couple of years ago with CNC cluster and 924T brakes. The cross beam I tied into the stock fuel tank mounts and gussets at the corners. The pedal felt as solid as a Mercedes. The brake light switch I used from a 944 and made my own bracket which mounted near the brake pedal.

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I took apart the stock cluster to use for the gas pedal. There's more options for floor mount setups nowadays that there weren't even a couple of years ago if you don't want to cut the underside of the dash/steering column area--but a balance bar setup IS the way to go.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:48 am

I like what I have seen here. The dash is a obstacle to doing the mounting brackets.

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This is a glass buggy but it might give someone some ideas as to using the bell-crank pedal assemblies.

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I wanted to do the swing pedals but too many things got in the way...literally. This is a hydraulic floor mounted conversion which I would never do again, at least this way. I am showing because while it turned OK but was a pain to do. Too much detail and ancillary work involved.

If I remember right there is a human engineering standard on pedal height off the floor. Do a search to see what it is if you are still interested.

juki
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by juki » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:29 pm

Jadewombat, that's really nice install.
What length pedals you used?

Ol'fogasaurus, I was thinking of doing similar floor mounted conversion, but I'm not interested to modify the frame head and the firewall that much as I think it'd be a pain to do like you said.

Another nice custom pedal assembly which I found from Ultimateaircooled forum. I'm actually liking this a lot,
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Jadewombat
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Jadewombat » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:18 pm

Thanks. It was about 5 years ago and I don't remember exactly, but I want to say they were the 214 series with 14" pedals.

http://www.cncbrakes.com/prodgroup.asp?grp=dcbpa

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Jadewombat
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Jadewombat » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:51 pm

Another one. These guys are from Austria and on here occasionally. Looks like a great setup for heel-toe work. My legs are too long though, :oops:
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:50 pm

That is part of the problem I am having... moving the seat towards the rear. I sit lower which makes it worse.

Lee

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FJCamper
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by FJCamper » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:12 pm

Overhead Pivot Pedal Mounts

Overhead mounts have one good thing going for them. Debris on the cabin floor can't interfere with the pedal movement.

We lost many laps in one enduro race because a sheet metal screw rolled under the brake pedal, and just like Murphy planned, was exactly the right size and in the right location to jam our pedal and prevent full retraction.

We have big Wilwood 4-piston Dynalites up front, and a 150hp engine in the rear. The engine pushed the car against the brake drag until the pads began to disintegrate, the clutch was smoking, and the brakes seized. We had to be towed in (which takes a while) by a big truck, and the brake drag literally bent the front bumper tow hook almost straight.

We discovered the screw when we learned that the brake pedal wouldn't return.

Our best defense now, short of an overhead pedal cluster, is a cabin floor foot rest and guard.

FJC

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ChadH
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by ChadH » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:26 pm

I'm dragging this back up for my build. I'm starting on my cage over this long weekend (believe it or not) and it's time to start thinking about if I want to incorporate swing mounts. I want to use reverse swing mounts (with the M/C's toward the driver) - similar to the examples Juki posted. I don't want to locate the assemblies above the footwell like Jadewombat, since I need to have a sealed metal bulkhead between the cabin and where the gas tank is located. So, onto more requests for advice...

A) What pedal lengths should I be looking for. I'm guessing as short as possible, since room is cramped, but I'm a little worried that with the rather upright seating position, my shins will be hitting the M/C assemblies. It's hard to know for sure, without having the assembly in-hand for trial fitting.

2) What diameter M/C's should I be looking for? I'll be running basic VW/Ghia calipers front and rear.

III) Most importantly, is it even worth the effort and expense. I'd like to be able to adjust brake bias, but maybe it's just one more thing that I'll need to sort out when I get the car running. Should I just get a stock type M/C and be done with it?

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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:20 pm

juki wrote:Jadewombat, that's really nice install.
What length pedals you used?

Ol'fogasaurus, I was thinking of doing similar floor mounted conversion, but I'm not interested to modify the frame head and the firewall that much as I think it'd be a pain to do like you said.

Another nice custom pedal assembly which I found from Ultimateaircooled forum. I'm actually liking this a lot,
Image

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Juki, the problem with what I see here is the throttle pedal is in front of the brake pedal which limits the ability to "heel and toe" assuming you may need the ability to do that. You have the same problem that I have and that is the clutch pedal is both wide and off-set which looks like it is going to be too close or interfere with the side of the body. You are also in the passenger compartment which can mean that someone riding with you for the first time can be un-gental with the stub sticking out from the tunnel if they don't see what it is.

For what its worth.

Lee

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Jadewombat
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Re: Swing mount pedals

Post by Jadewombat » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:42 am

ChadH wrote:
A) What pedal lengths should I be looking for. I'm guessing as short as possible, since room is cramped, but I'm a little worried that with the rather upright seating position, my shins will be hitting the M/C assemblies. It's hard to know for sure, without having the assembly in-hand for trial fitting.


2) What diameter M/C's should I be looking for? I'll be running basic VW/Ghia calipers front and rear.

III) Most importantly, is it even worth the effort and expense. I'd like to be able to adjust brake bias, but maybe it's just one more thing that I'll need to sort out when I get the car running. Should I just get a stock type M/C and be done with it?

The ones used in buggies/sandrails are pretty short and should fit nicely, get plenty of measurements from them before you commit to buying.

IIRC I used 3/4" bores for the brake M/Cs and 5/8" for the clutch. The brake M/Cs were pushing fairly large Porsche calipers though. The stock bore IIRC is ~19mm so 3/4" is pretty close. Both Ol' and FJ bring up good points.

To what FJ was saying, I remember my gas pedal was sticking during an event. And NO, in case you all are wondering, the quickest way around an AutoX course is not with the gas pressed down all the way I found out the hard way. :oops: :P So yes, mounting the pedal cluster with a few extra mm under it for something to not bind up the assembly is an excellent idea.

Ol'/Chad, maybe 1 brake assembly with a balance bar and 1 separate clutch pedal mounted to get the pedals where you want them respective to each other instead of 1 complete assembly??

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