Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

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petew
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Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by petew » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:36 am

Hi all, drove a friend of mine's Datsun 510 the other day at a gymkhana. It's got a quick steer setup and it got me thinking. I found this on CIP1. I know a few people here are using them. Thoughts?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 13-22-2823

Is it ok for a street/khana car? Upsides? Downsides? It's to go on a Kingpin front end.

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4agedub
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by 4agedub » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:15 am

Biggest issue is that it will make the steering heavy to turn. I have been looking into retrofitting a electric power steering column from a GM pickup. Will probably continue this research when I get to my twin turbo project again.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:49 am

FWIW; I've driven a car with electric steering on the street once back in about 2010. The feel at the steering wheel was smooth, easy effort but there was a neutral/no road feel. Things I am sure of must have gotten better since then...hopefully.

That being said; I have been seeing more sand rails with electric steering lately if that means anything to you but the reasons for it are somewhat different than yours while somewhat the same also.

The SACO R & P has a 2:1 rato while others like LR are 1:1 ratio making the steering heavy at lower speeds. As 4agedub said, the steering quickener is adding more leverage to the steering so the steering should get at least a bit heaver but there also has to be other mitigating things in there also.

I hope this helps some.

Lee

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Marc
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by Marc » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:25 pm

If you think it'll work better in 'khana (and have reasonably good upper-body strength) give it a try. Not a good match for a small steering wheel; by lengthening the Pitman arm it causes a slight change in the Ackermann & bump-steer characteristics but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Biggest issue I have with them is the hardware; you're securing it to the tapered holes in the Pitman arm with straight bolts so they need to be hella tight (check for "rust trails" where the parts meet regularly too). I don't trust the Chaiwanese bolts they come with.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66584&start=0

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petew
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by petew » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:38 pm

Cheers, I did a search but didn't find that thread. Some good thinking there. I might put it off for a while until my 12yo daughter gets the hang of the car.

In the meantime she can spin the wheel 200 times on every hairpin. :D

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:15 pm

The pitman arm extender kits can work well, bump steer will be significant without attending to it, basically, the steering box needs rotating to bring the increased height of the inner ball joints back to par, proper bump steering of an axle beam car is very time consuming, and yes, they do make the steering heavy, the increased loads I found do take their toll on all stressed steering parts, I take the rattle gun to the extender bolts regularly, also I beefed up the clamp bolt area with welded in plate washers on mine as the increased torque and maintenance required was deforming the clamp, make sure new s'box locators are fabbed up once the new 'box location is determined, they are also missing when we convert LHD supplied beams to RHD for uk roads so even a stock beam swop can introduce bump steer.

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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:54 pm

I just clicked the link to look at the kit on offer, there are shortcomings with the attaching bolts as Marc mentioned, what I did was drilled the extender plate and the tapers on the pitman arm to take larger shanked cap bolts and nylok nuts for a bullet proof attachment, I gun them up to around 120ft/lb.

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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:07 pm

On the electric steering: we're at the dunes now and I got talking to a guy about the electric steering. He said there was a guy around that builds modules for the electric steering that makes them "proportional". He also said he didn't think they should be used on the street but I am not completely sure what he was talking about with that statement.

One guy thought the steering unit would be in the $400 dollar range but another guy said in the $800 range. These guys are running V8s and almost sand cars. They also gave some autos that one could get a cheap unit for. The conversation was short but very interesting.

For what it's worth.

Lee

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10speed
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by 10speed » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:53 pm

I use one on the street... I fitted it and then didnt drive the car for 6 months while I took care of some other jobs and havent noticed the steering being any heavier. I do run the factory steering wheel mind you.

I do like the idea about shanked bolts, I'll make that mod this weekend.

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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:58 pm

He may have been talking about the proportional unit but there were just too many conversations and too many subjects being discussed. I also got called away but if they are still around tomorrow or this weekend I will try to get more information.

PhillipM
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by PhillipM » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:32 am

You can put adjusters on most of the ePAS kits to change the amount of assistance you receive, you can also make them change the assistance vs steering angle on the more complex ones but that needs hall sensors on the steering shafts for angle, etc.

buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by buildabiggerboxer » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:53 pm

http://litesteer.com/lite-steer/classic-vehicles/
I met this company owner through racing, he races a Beetle too! His systems increases assist as speed decreases, as i get no younger daily, i may have to make that call!

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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:56 pm

PhillipM wrote:You can put adjusters on most of the ePAS kits to change the amount of assistance you receive, you can also make them change the assistance vs steering angle on the more complex ones but that needs hall sensors on the steering shafts for angle, etc.
What you are saying sound knd of like what the guy I was talking to was saying.

Lee

PhillipM
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by PhillipM » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:02 pm

buildabiggerboxer wrote:http://litesteer.com/lite-steer/classic-vehicles/
I met this company owner through racing, he races a Beetle too! His systems increases assist as speed decreases, as i get no younger daily, i may have to make that call!
Jesus :shock:

Mine is made out of £50 of scrapyard car parts, I could build a new car for some of those prices :lol:

Looks like his are similar to the Vauxhall Corsa columns a lot of racers are using - £25 for a column and about the same for the adjustable ECU chip to run it...

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FJCamper
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Re: Quick steer kit? Yes, No, maybe?

Post by FJCamper » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Hi-

I have used quick steer kits since the mid-1970's on our autocross Ghias and as long as you have at least a 15" steering wheel, they are worth the almost full turn they take out of standard Type 1 steering.

Fast street and road course steering does not require quick steering. You can use a 13 to 14-inch steering wheel for the street which in itself will give you quicker steering response.

We are now experimenting with a quicksteer kit on a road racing Ghia and find it unnecessary, as the steering is hair-trigger and a little steering wheel movement equals a lot of steering input. That means at speed do not sneeze.

All that said, here's one minute at speed video of our road course Ghia with quicksteer at Road Atlanta from earlier this year. With a 15" VW Sport wheel. Smooth is vital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tng5ReSc2wY

FJC

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