Products that don't exist, but should

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Bruce2
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Bruce2 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:55 am

10speed wrote:Narrowed IRS trailing arms, to reduce irs rear track to the same as narrow swing axles
They used to exist, but I got sick of making them. And the cheap VW people wouldn't pay enough.

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Piledriver
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:21 am

John at aircooled.net also used to sell tubular narrowed A-arms, same reasons why they disappeared.
I considered buying a set of those at one point until I did some research.
(I'd still like to buy some 0/0 tubular arms for the weight saving, like the Mendeolas)

The narrowed arms gain you nothing as to making space for bigger meats, it just changes the required wheel offset to be more friendly to the cheap aftermarket VW wheels that are ~ET15 and really fit nothing very well.
Single spring plates gain you 10-12mm on the inside vs duals.

A narrowed torsion and arms, and tubbing the inner "fender" is really needed to fit much bigger meat.
Otherwise simply choosing wheels/spacers with the required offset is just as effective.


Probably a silly question, but could you use a T3 hub and trim the inside, (hardened spacer on the outside) and perhaps use a shallower offset rear rotor than the typical 914 rotor?
I'm pretty sure you could easily get the same 3/4" per side out of it, using a shallower rotor and/or custom caliper mounts.
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Jim Ed
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Jim Ed » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:03 am

I would like to be able to purchase oil sump plate acorn nuts that have a wax ring similar to what the oil pump cover wax ring nuts have.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:34 am

I've never heard of "wax ring nuts" before (except maybe for polititions but now I am getting off-subject and into the no-no area). Are they single use?

Lee

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Marc
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Marc » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:15 pm

I think he's talking about the "seal nuts" used for case & pump-cover applications. Not "wax", rather (usually red) plastic seal rings built in. They ARE available in m6x1.0, primary application being early pump covers, but rather spendy for what is usually a one-time use. Occasionally you can get a reasonably good price on a large quantity, say 100 or more at a time, but it can be a challenge finding a place that sells them at all. I think we got ours from Wurth, can't recall what P/N we sold them under but IIRC it was an "N" number (ex: N 010 357 1).
I just "paint" the stock copper sump plate washers with RTV - just a film on both sides - before using with the stock cap nuts. Never had much luck using plain nuts regardless of the amount of sealant used.

There is such a thing as a self-sealing acorn nut with an integral rubber O-ring that's ostensibly reusable, but I can't find any metric sizes listed online. Looks like they'd be pretty trick if you could get themImage

The "APM" company makes "Seelnuts" which look similar to the German-made ones but not all dealers stock the metric sizes.
Image


The m8x1.25 111 115 161 seal nuts go for ~$3.50-$4.00 ea at VW parts-sellers :shock:
m12x1.5 113 101 131A are usually a little cheaper.

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:07 pm

The rubber O ring type I am familiar with. Thanks for the clarification Marc. I think the idea of using something that is reusable and seals the threads that, if the threads are worn a bit, can weep.

Lee

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Marc
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Marc » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:47 pm

The red plastic/nylon ones are intended for single use (the stud makes "threads" into the plastic) and they often come apart upon removal; if they don't and you're a cheapskate you can reuse 'em to see if they leak or not...

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Piledriver
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:48 am

Google for Elephant Racing Cambermax.

Its only made for <85 911s with alloy arms, but it would be pretty trivial to make a similar bit as a tool to do the same ---up or down --- for setting rear camber, and perhaps adaptable for toe as well on beetles and 944s.
I suppose you could mount it on the back side and leave it...

I'll be making one tomorrow, as my 944 T rear suspension came without the sway bar eccentrics, which also happen to set camber.
Just bolting it together I have ~ -3.8 degrees, which would be awesome for AX, but for DD will eat the tires.
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Piledriver
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:03 pm

Inspired by the Elephant Racing CamberMax,...and the +/- ~.5 degree the stock 944 camber eccentric adjustment provides...

Lets call it "Piles MaxCamber tool"

This will work on 944, T1/T3, Bus or <=87 Porsche 911 rear suspension (with trailing arms).
All rights public domain.
(OK, someone at Pelican forums beat me to it, its a "Home Depot Racing 911 Camber Tool")

Advanced camber tool: Rapid, max adjustment range.---
First, dimple the arm top and/or bottom ~1/4" deep, 3/8" dia, ball mill or drill will do, doesn't need much.
Middle of arm, somewhere around the front bolt.
If you need a lot of adjustment, remove that bolt for now.
dimple-trailing-arm.jpg
Then install the customized advanced camber tool.
Note the adjusting unit has been carefully customised..
You may already have one pre-customised.

Notice how it allows access to the bolts and toe adjustment (seen with Piles Advanced Toe Tool installed)
It even can swivel to different positions, and works for pos or neg camber adjustment.
For added grip, cut a few grooves across the fixed pad at various angles to grab the spring plate better.
Prevents possible slippage.
Installed as shown, tightening screw will move camber positive relative to current position.
(doesn't seem right, but it does)

You may need to blow the hole out some in the forward bolt area in the spring plate for max adjustment range.

Works Absolutely Awesome..
advanced-camber-tool.jpg
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:23 am

With now hearing that ARP is rolling threads after heat treat that brings up another "I wish".

It would be nice to be able to not cut threads on rods or use all-thread but to cut a rod to length then be able to roll the threads in at the length needed after cutting. It might be a hellishly expensive machine to have but if there was some place to send them to that could afford to get a thread roller then they roll the threads at a reasonable price, the weakness of the cut thread rod allowing for deflection and/or the failure potential should be lessened greatly.

Lee

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Ozzie
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ozzie » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:09 am

I would like to run across a set of offset front trailing arms. I haven't done the math but let's say just for description that the uppers could be an 1/8th inward and the lowers an 1/8th outward to achieve more camber. The more eccentric camber adjusters just don't take you far enough.

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ChadH
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by ChadH » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:16 am

Ozzie wrote:I would like to run across a set of offset front trailing arms. I haven't done the math but let's say just for description that the uppers could be an 1/8th inward and the lowers an 1/8th outward to achieve more camber. The more eccentric camber adjusters just don't take you far enough.
Years -n- years ago, I did sort of a hack-job mod to get some more camber. I narrowed the top spring stack by about 1/8", flipped them over, and re-drilled the grub screw notch. I installed delrin bushings. There's enough material on the outside of the bushings that they can be ground back, and the top arms will sit farther inboard. There was enough increase in camber to make it worth the effort. This was an autocross car that I ran for about a year, so it didn't get a lot of wear. I can't say how it would hold up with a lot of use though.

PhillipM
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by PhillipM » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:26 pm

Ozzie wrote:I would like to run across a set of offset front trailing arms. I haven't done the math but let's say just for description that the uppers could be an 1/8th inward and the lowers an 1/8th outward to achieve more camber. The more eccentric camber adjusters just don't take you far enough.
If you have a kingpin front end however that makes your pins bind on your bushes unless you bore them offset - I had to make a jig up to do the same because that's how I put enough camber on the front end:

Image

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Ozzie
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ozzie » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:08 pm

Chad, any troubles drilling the springs? I've thought about longer/shorter torsion tubes. I figured for some price sway-a-way could make a custom length set of spring packs.
Phillip, I should have been more clear. I am running ball joints. Cool idea for the king pins though.

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Marc
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Marc » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:09 pm

You may have considered that the camber eccentrics also affect caster by moving the center of the balljoint fore and aft as well as side to side. This can create a twisting impetus as the suspension cycles - you cannot change the length of one side of a parallelogram without something having to give. I refer to this as "balljoint-generated bump steer".
It's not severe enough to cause much of a problem, but that's why the eccentric isn't supposed to be turned so that the notch faces rearward...and with the aftermarket eccentrics that effect is exacerbated.

Now that the preface is out of the way, I'll go on.

The upper control arm(s) can be bent inward with a press (cold-bent if it's a big enough one, which is preferred) or by heating with a rosebud - if the balljoint's in place keep it cool to prevent damage.
I have NEVER seen one fail after doing this, but if you're paranoid about that do the bending cold and have it Magnafluxed.

Because bending it in also makes its effective length (as viewed from the side) greater, it will introduce the bumpsteer effect noted above so it's a less-than-ideal approach, but you may find that the gain from increasing the negative camber offsets that disadvantage.

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