Products that don't exist, but should

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Piledriver
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Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:53 am

Let's post some ideas for VW related products we want that don't exist, but should.

No "Like an EMPI (anything) but not sucking" that's a quality issue, not a product idea.

I'll throw down first:
T1 front wheel bearing billet caps that ALSO are hubcentric adapters for Porsche wheels.
(just the caps, no wheel adapter, you can simply buy 5x130 discs with no hubcentric area, the ACVW hub size is too big anyway)
An oring seal would be nice.
You could do the smaller (say BMW or maybe even WC VW or BMW size), and supply a set of the std plastic hubcentric adapter spacers as needed and cover ~most every modern hubcentric wheel made.
It isn't load bearing, it just perfectly centers the wheel when you bolt it down. Plastic works fine for that.
Heck, the dust cap could be plastic too. The grease won't know.

If anyone decides to make these, I'd love 2 sets for the idea, if you are feeling generous.
I'm likely to make a pair RSN anyway for my own use.

Another variant would be rear hubs or discs/drums that are also hubcentric in the same fashion.
I ended up modding the t3 hubs I had. (yes, it helps, greatly, especially with studs)
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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GS guy
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by GS guy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:24 pm

I'd like to see a replacement tapered roller bearing set-up for the IRS rear. Something you could adjust the bearing play with shims and internal spacer. Never understood using a ball bearing to control the rear axle in-out play!
For as long as people have been modifying VWs, especially for heavy off-road use and racing, hard to believe no-one has come up with a straight up conversion bearing set.

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:50 pm

GS, its interesting to note that I recently heard talk that there was a discussion about going back to ball bearings, at least in some areas. I don't remember the whole conversation as I wasn't really interested in it, only amused. Kind of like the discussion on returning to using the Whitworth system of measurements.

The logic there goes over my head but there were some points made to using ball bearings in certain areas and in certain circumstances.

Lee

PhillipM
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by PhillipM » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:18 pm

Less heat, wear and friction than a taper roller. And the rear bearings are large enough that a double ball bearing should be fine with the correct spacer and preload - look how many vehicles on the road these past 30-40 years use double-row ball bearings that are smaller than the VW ones without issue.

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GS guy
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by GS guy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:34 pm

In the VW IRS, only that single row ball bearing keeps the stub axle in place in the trailing arm. The outer flat roller provides only radial alignment and no axial control on the axle. It essentially floats on the axle, as a spacer between the outer hub (or drum) and inner spacers and ball bearing inner race. Any play in that ball bearing, and I think by definition all ball bearings have some play, translates to axial and some radial play in the rear axle and outer hub.
It may have been a lower drag engineering solution, and granted built to make the most of 60hp and ~80 mph top speed. I believe the modern "cartridge" style bearing is an integral inner and outer tapered bearing setup with built-in preload, in one sealed unit.

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:50 pm

GS guy wrote: I believe the modern "cartridge" style bearing is an integral inner and outer tapered bearing setup with built-in preload, in one sealed unit.
Ball bearings can be designed to take a LOT of side load.
More common are dual row integrated ball bearings, with preload, and permanent seals.
Used since the 60s actually, the 911 had them out back from day one (I think), they are almost universal now.
A lot of those dual row sealed bearings are also just about the right physical size to be a drop-in replacement.
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Bruce2 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:29 am

It sounds like you want to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
The stock ball brg with roller bearing is very reliable.
GS guy wrote: Any play in that ball bearing, and I think by definition all ball bearings have some play, translates to axial and some radial play in the rear axle and outer hub.
Any play you find is two tenths of nothing.

A 944 used exactly the same TA and bearings as Beetle. 150hp and 130 mph top speed. They came with an 8" wide wheel on a 3" spacer to really increase the radial load. Also the car was close to 2800 lbs. What makes you think the design is inadequate in a flyweight Beetle?

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Bruce2 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:32 am

Here's what VW should have done to the oil filler. It should have been tilted more so the cap was closer to parallel to the ground so you can pour oil into it without dripping all over the cylinder tin below. The stupid design has always annoyed me.

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Bruce.m » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:32 am

Bruce2 wrote:It sounds like you want to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
The stock ball brg with roller bearing is very reliable.
GS guy wrote: Any play in that ball bearing, and I think by definition all ball bearings have some play, translates to axial and some radial play in the rear axle and outer hub.
Any play you find is two tenths of nothing.

A 944 used exactly the same TA and bearings as Beetle. 150hp and 130 mph top speed. They came with an 8" wide wheel on a 3" spacer to really increase the radial load. Also the car was close to 2800 lbs. What makes you think the design is inadequate in a flyweight Beetle?
FWIW... There was one improvement to the design when Porsche used the steel trailing arms in the 944. They sell precision Circlips to hold the bearing in the arm with zero play. I guess the machining of the arms has some level of tolerance that means the bearing might be slightly loose. The workshop manual states to fit the smallest c-clip (bug size) and then measure the gap using a feeler gauge and fit the largest size possible.

Worth considering if you find a replacement bearing has a small amount of play (in the axle).

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Piledriver » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:51 pm

Perhaps a package of shim stock rings in asstd thicknesses is a need for the rear bearings?

The only time I have ever felt any play is if the rear axle nut is loose or if the bearings sound like an operating rock crusher, but I confess I have yet to try the Chinese rear bearings.
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Bruce.m » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:34 am

In case anyone finds it useful.....

Image

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Lingwendil
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Lingwendil » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:01 pm

(Electrical item, but it bothers me enough that I feel I should mention it)

A fuse box that bolts into the stock location, has a clear cover like stock, but takes modern blade fuses, while retaining the same style spades hanging out the back, for a nearly drop in solution to making the wiring more efficient and modern. No more loose ancient fuses.



Back on suspension/braking however-

A disc brake kit with backing plates!

I know, I know, they aren't completely necessary, but screw it. I want them. Most every production car has them. It feels like such a kludge of an unfinished product to go without.

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:47 pm

Buy a good bead roller and make your own.

Not being a smart ass here but it might be your only option if you really want or need them. I'm currently looking at a bead roller myself. Be careful and do your research well as while many of them look so similar, they may not be. Check the gauge they say they are capable of handling and not just the price. Also look into mods people are making to them and why.

Lee

edit: made word corrections due to my tablet not liking my grammar and changing or deleting words.
Last edited by Ol'fogasaurus on Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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10speed
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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by 10speed » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:44 am

Narrowed IRS trailing arms, to reduce irs rear track to the same as narrow swing axles
Offset link pin bushes to introduce camber into the front end (these are available but very hard to locate)

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Re: Products that don't exist, but should

Post by paul_f » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:02 am

Bruce.m wrote:In case anyone finds it useful.....
Really useful thanks! I have found recently that even German new bearings seem to have a tiny amount of play. Tried new arms with the same issue.

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