Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Discuss VW transaxles and transmissions. Gearheads wanted!

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Bruce2
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by Bruce2 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:33 pm

That's strange...... I haven't received your asking price for that tool yet. An oversight?

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fusername
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by fusername » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:45 pm

a minor slip of the mind if you will. So the off road forum and myself are curious as to what it is, did you see my link? I feel like you could have a lot of fun with that game

Bruce2
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by Bruce2 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:16 pm

Yes I could........ after I own that tool :wink:

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fusername
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by fusername » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:14 am

how has a wise guy like you avoided the ORF this long? I need to rack your brain about LSDs and all that good stuff.

Bruce2
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by Bruce2 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:40 pm

fusername wrote:how has a wise guy like you avoided the ORF this long?
Baaaahh! Bunch of lightweights over there. 8)
That tool is a bearing puller. Similar to the one needed to pull the mainshaft ball bearing, but not the right one. It looks like the puller you have has 8 fingers. The MS bearing needs a puller with 7.

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fusername
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by fusername » Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:39 am

I;ll count em and find out. no part number or mfr anywhere on it, had me scrathing my head for a while.

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david58
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by david58 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:32 pm

hazetguy wrote:Since alot of people ask me, and keep starting threads about pullers for the reduction box bearings, I thought I would compile a list of pullers I am familiar with, and sources for them, accurate at the time of this writing.
This list is for the ball bearing type 6305 and 6306 bearings, particularly the removal of the lower outer 6306 bearing of the "small nut" reduction box. However having the puller also makes getting the upper inner 6306 bearing out very easy. All references to a "bearing", unless noted, are in relation to the BALL BEARING 6305 and 6306 BEARINGS,
VW part numbers 211 501 285 and 311 501 283, respectively. These bearings, as far as I know, are used in all reduction boxes, from Barndoor through 67, and probably even Things.
These pullers will also work on swing-axle Type 1 and 3, which use the 6306 / 311 501 283 bearing. I have used the Baum type and the Kukko type on Type 1 and 3 successfully.

This list is NOT for the later, lower outer roller bearing found on 64-67 reduction boxes, since those bearings do not need to be pulled to separate the box halves. They can be pulled with a bearing separator and a press once the axle is removed.


General info:
Look in the factory service manual, or a Bentley reprint. Look at the tools necessary and the process involved for changing the bearings. If it looks too complicated or you don't feel that mechanically inclined to do such a job, take it to someone who knows what they are doing, and has the tools to do it without damaging increasingly harder to find parts.

The bearings are not specific to VW applications, but when sourcing bearings, try, if at all possible, to get quality bearings, with a C3 rating, and handle them properly before and during installation, and install them properly. Use a thrust pad for the shaft of the puller so you don't damge the axles when pulling the bearings, and use proper drivers for the bearings when installing them. I mean really, do you want to damage the bearing when you are installing it and have to rebuild your reduction boxes again in a short period of time? Do not use sealed bearings, since the reduction boxes use gear oil for lubrication, there may be lubrication problems between the grease in a sealed bearing and the gear oil.

There will always be a "backyard" or "shade tree mechanic" way of pulling the bearings, and yes, I am sure they work in a bind. To me, personally, it is not worth my time and possible part or tool damage to try to rig up the wrong tool to get the bearings off, especially if there is ANY thought of reusing a bearing. In an emergency, maybe. But since I have the proper tools to pull the bearings, I use them, and can only recommend and comment on those.

Different puller types:
There are a few different puller types I own and have seen. See pics below. All are essential specialty tools, designed to properly pull bearings off shafts, which is really what you are doing, when it all boils down to it. The procedure is not some ultra mysterious "VW only" operation.

"Baum Type"
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"Kukko Type"
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Sources:
I have found pullers all over the place. eBay, auto swap meets (not just VW ones), shops that are going out of business or selling older stuff, the Samba classifieds, old mechanics who are retiring, flea markets, used tool shops, etc. Once you know what to look for, and/or tool numbers for the pullers, they are relatively easy to find.
Some names to look for are: Kukko, Belzer, Baum Tools, Assenmacher, SKF, Zelenda, Rillex.
They are also availble NEW through various sources. Please be aware, they are NOT CHEAP, especially since the $ is in the toilet versus the Euro, and most of these tools come from Germany. For example, I think the last time I called Baum for a price, the puller *housing* was over $200 and the collets were sold separately and about $60 each. They are professional tools, for professional mechanics. But if you don't mind doing some footwork, they can be found less expensively used. I got my Baum type puller for $10 at a swap meet, my Kukko type was FREE after I sold a couple other tools that were in the same pile as the Kukko puller. Many times, the expensive initial price is not worth it if you are only going to do the job once, so it may be worth your while to have a shop do the job for you, rather than shelling out for a tool that you will never use again.
Again, these are NOT VW SPECIFIC tools. They are bearing pullers for pulling specific types of bearings.

Pullers:
As of this writing, Baum tools supposedly was out of stock. I do not know the manufacture's name of the puller that Baum carries. Their tool number is 242, while the 6306 collet is number 242A. Their type is sold with interchangeable collets to fit different bearings, and are sold separately. Their website has not been functioning properly for me, so I can not look up that puller at this time. This is the kind in the first picture above, and is the one I always carry with me. It works excellently. I do not have the collet for the 6305 bearing, but this works great for the others.
Here is a picture of the page from the Baum Tools catalog, showing the tool numbers and their applications.
Image

Kukko series 70 also is useable on a wide variety of bearings.
http://tools.baumtools.com/kukko2.jsp and then go to "Bearing Pulling and Extracting tools" to open a pdf file that shows series 70 type pullers. I have a Belzer version of this puller, and while it takes a little finess to set it up, it works excellently, and I have different rings for both type bearings found in reduction boxes. I believe the Kukko number for the proper puller is the 70-2 type.
I looked a little closer at my Belzer/Kukko puller. The arms are Kukko 772, and the Belzer housing is number 4582N.

There is also the factory specified puller, but they are very hard to find in complete, unbroken condition. Factory tool number is either VW241a or US241a. Please go to the "Technical" tab at the top of the page, then scroll down to the "VW Tool Listing" section, where many, many VW specialty tools can be seen and described.

VW 241a:
Image

Contacts:
I am NOT affiliated with ANY of the following companies. They are just some of the places I have dealt with over the years. Call or email them directly, as I obviously can not answer questions for them.

Zelenda http://www.zelenda.com/ 888-892-8348 Carries Hazet tools, Kukko, and other auto specialty tools. I always go to them first, and have been dealing with them for about 12 years.

SamstagSales http://www.samstagsales.com (615) 735-3388 (9/07 edit) http://www.samstagsales.com/kukko.htm lists the Kukko 70-2 puller housing and arm sets, sold separately. I do not see a 6305 arm set listed (upper outer reduction box bearing), so you may want to call to ask about that particular application.
This page: http://www.samstagsales.com/sirtools.htm lists the "Baum" type puller housing and collets, each sold separately.

Baum Tools http://www.baumtools.com/ 800-848-6657 (Personal note: Baum always seems to be extremely high priced on many things that can be found elsewhere. Check other sources before ordering from Baum.)

Assenmacher/AST http://www.asttool.com/front_page.php 800-525-2943 I have not dealt with them personally and have not looked through their website, but they seem to have VW/European/Automotive type tools that I see for sale alot in other places.

I do not deal with Snap-On, Matco, Mac, etc, type of tool vendors very often, so I can not comment on what type of pullers they have available, or who they can order tools from, but you might ask them if you have a truck in your area.

One other thing, when contacting places like this. These are old, obsolete vehicles we are driving and fixing. Their catalogs may not have references for vehicles this old, and their sales agents probably do not know the mechanical breakdown of a 3/4 ton VW rear axle. But if you call or search a website and ask for a puller for a specific bearing like a 6306 or 6305, that may get you further ahead than just trying to explain that this is for use on a 50 year old Volkswagen.

Bearing reference: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/inf ... ref_t2.php

Hope this helps.
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badxampl
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by badxampl » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:12 am

If anyone is interested, I do have a few vw tranmission/transaxle tools that I've had for a while. I do have the vw289d tool as mentoned earlier in this post. I also have a vw288b, and some others. I'll have to dig up some numbers on them...
willing to sell or trade for parts for my 67 Fasty.
-Keith
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Its a Volkswagen Thing. Even I dont understand...

danny714
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by danny714 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:16 pm

Hi
I would be interested in the tool in the top picture . Do you have a price in mind ?

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badxampl
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by badxampl » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:55 am

Sorry the 289d went very quickly. I will post more pics of the remaining tools that i have available. -Keith
Its a Volkswagen Thing. Even I dont understand...

pupjoint
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by pupjoint » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:04 am

been on the lookout for some old factory tranny tools, slowly looking at old , closing down shop in my area or country I am in.

other than the ones listed so far, what else should I be looking for?

i have zero for now, so i would need tools to start on the later gearboxes first; managed to collect bits here and there over the years.

not many or very few in my area can spell gearboxes properly, so i may have to do it myself.

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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by pupjoint » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:52 am

ok, made myself a jig, cut apart a SSC case.... :lol: ...no choice...

Any ideas what can I use/need to set the ring pinion back lash ?

who makes a good dial gauge? pics would be good and appreaciated.

Newbie here, I know it will be tough to start to learn how to do it, but I couldn’t find anyone locally with enough knowledge to deal with what I want.

smbaker
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by smbaker » Mon May 02, 2011 3:06 pm

I'm thinking of tearing into my 002 this weekend and had a couple of questions. My transaxle is the 1969 and newer style. Unfortunately, Long Enterprises is down on vacation so I can't dig for information and tools there, but it looks like most of the simpler tools are available from multiple sources.

1) The pinon nut -- it looks like there is a common but expensive socket (VW 381/14, bugpack http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 12-7065-25) to remove this thing. I've heard from others it can be stuck like the devil. Does anyone successfully remove it without this socket? Most of the "starter" toolkits don't seem to include any tool for removing this nut. I'm thinking this thing is going to be required.

2) Differential adjusting ring/cover thing (i.e. the thing that holds the differential in) -- VW 381/15. Not sure where to pick one of these up, again it's not included with the 'starter' toolkits. Is it necessary to use this socket here? Perhaps these aren't stuck in that bad and can be removed by hand?

3) Jig and other misc tools (http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... 12-7065-20). This is the cheap urethane jig, and looks similar if not identical to Long's economy jig (LE152). This would be necessary to reposition the shift forks. There are also heavy duty aluminum jigs available (long LE151). I'm thinking the urethane one would be good enough, as I'm likely only planning on rebuilding one transaxle, maybe a few others in the distant future.

Any suggestions (aside from the usual advice about the difficulties in doing this oneself, and the wisdom of saving money by having a shop do it for you). My goal would be to get enough tools on hand to do the disassembly this weekend, then maybe get some more items next week.

Scott

Bruce2
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by Bruce2 » Mon May 02, 2011 11:51 pm

I've seen some guys who don't have the pinion socket use a chisel to unscrew it. Unfortunately, this destroys the nut.

Alaric H
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Re: Transmission teardown, tools needed, rebuilding

Post by Alaric H » Wed May 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Here are some of my tools that I can not even use yet. I have more in the basement but I did not feel like bringing them all up to the garage.Far as I know that is every tool to do a vanagon trans if it is in the Bentley it is here.

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Last edited by Alaric H on Wed May 11, 2011 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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