5mm 1-2 sliders

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Bruce2
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5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Bruce2 » Sat May 16, 2015 3:29 am

I thought there was only one 5mm slider, but at a swap meet recently, I found a seller with some Bus trans parts. The 5mm sliders he was selling have a single indicator line cut through the tops of the reverse teeth as a variation indicator. What are these sliders for?
The reverse tooth count is the same.
The fork groove is about .2mm narrower.
The big difference is the overall width. A Type 1 slider is 25mm wide while the ones with the indicator line are 24mm. Since there's no stock 1-2 shift rod with detents spaced further apart, this can't be used in a Type 1 as far as I know.
If you had an early Berg 5 where Gene spaced the detents wider than stock, this slider might work.

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Pablo2
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Pablo2 » Sat May 16, 2015 9:03 am

I think that's the same slider type that I had this 5mm fork made for: http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1023716.jpg The other difference (from later 5mm sliders) was no undercut on 2nd gear drive flank, which made it compatible for my pro-shift 2nd. If I recall correctly, this earliest of 5mm sliders MAY have been used only in one specific year Type III transaxle.

I never worried too much about the detent spacing of the individual pieces prior to trial assembly. After shaving the slider for increased engagement into 1st & 2nd etc, most of the Type I's I built required some outward relocation of the 1st/2nd detent(s), anyhow. (I had a simple & quick method for that in my Bridgeport, using a thin stone with the same radius as a detent ball.)
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
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dangerous
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by dangerous » Sun May 17, 2015 7:19 am

091 bus sliders.

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dangerous
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by dangerous » Sun May 17, 2015 2:39 pm

The last 1st/2nd bug rails had a little more detent spacing.
I have been told there is enough fork clearance, to use these in a bug trans,
but have only tried them with aftermarket gears
that required a narrowed 113/002 sleeve, as Paul suggests above.

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Henryhoehandle
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Henryhoehandle » Sun May 17, 2015 5:27 pm

dangerous wrote:091 bus sliders.
Yes, that is what they look like.

Bruce2
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Bruce2 » Sun May 17, 2015 8:10 pm

Thanks Guys. Mystery solved!
I've never been inside a Bus 'box, so it's expected I wouldn't know.

About 8 years ago, someone discovered what was thought to be a mistake in the 1-2 shift rod of the Berg 5. The detents were spaced too far apart.
Image
In this pic I aligned the left detent so you could see the accumulated error in the right one. Old is the bottom, new is the top.
Recently, I found a very old article on the Berg 5, and in there Gene instructs the kit buyers to narrow the 1-2 slider by half a mm on each side. This explains why he put the detents where he did.
It looks like these 091 sliders would be perfect for use with the wide spaced detents in a Berg 5.

I did some more measuring on these two sliders. The 091 slider has longer engagement splines/teeth by about 1mm. It looks like using this slider will give you 1mm more engagement in each gear than the normal Type 1 slider.

Paul, this 091 slider is back-cut on all 4 sides.

Dave, I've always wondered why the fork clearance was higher with the 5mm parts.
4mm : .1 - .3mm
5mm : .5 - .85mm

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Pablo2
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Pablo2 » Mon May 18, 2015 10:11 am

Anyhow, there is one oddball Type I slider with 5mm groove, and no undercut on 2nd gear side. I believe it was the first 5mm slider, and found only in one of the Type III models (squareback or fastback).
Last edited by Pablo2 on Tue May 19, 2015 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86

Bruce2
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Bruce2 » Tue May 19, 2015 5:21 am

Paul, the current trans I am building is a DC code SSC Type 3 trans. It had the slider with 4 back cuts, although it had been rebult before. I checked my inventory of sliders and I found one that was missing the back cut on 2nd.

So I guess that makes 3 different 5mm 1-2 sliders. Are there any more?

Casting Timmy
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Re: 5mm 1-2 sliders

Post by Casting Timmy » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:32 am

I recently opened a few 091 boxes with one line 40 tooth sliders in them. I asked a couple sources about this and found out they were an aftermarket item for a little bit. They would cut .020" off each side for use with 091 boxes, so that's why I was seeing them there.

Incidentally I know Weddle is working on aftermarket 091 1-2 sliders right now, they got in the first batch and are testing them out now. It will be interesting to see how these do on the market.

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