Ring and Pinion
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- Posts: 9
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Ring and Pinion
I know about the O, K, and G designations on the r & P set-ups. My question is.... If I go to a web site like CB Perfomance, Air Cooled. net, etc., and am looking at a "new" VW made 4.38 (4.375) ring and pinion what exactly is it???? Is it a "no letter" part being made for another specific application? I see on Weddle's site they still make very specific references (much bigger bucks, too) as to what their Ring and Pinion sets are. What's the scoop?
- dangerous
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Re: Ring and Pinion
If they are genuine VW of Brazil 4.375, they are K.
- Pablo2
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Re: Ring and Pinion
Interesting. Perhaps they're making each ratio in what proved to be strongest when made in Germany.
I have a Brazilian 4.12 O
.. and the Brazilian 3.88 is G
I have a Brazilian 4.12 O
.. and the Brazilian 3.88 is G
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86
9.36 @ 146 in '86
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Re: Ring and Pinion
Well, I'm pulling my rotary motor conversion (1900 lb. kit car with full tank of gas) to do some other maintenance and so I thought we'd "try" a little different set-up in the transaxle. About 14 years or so ago when we had it built we went with a 3.44 (fairly new in the market at that at time) because I knew it was "thicker" and there would be less chance of killing it with the 300+ h.p. (supercharged) I was going to put in it. After doing some math with my local mechanic/friend and some of the rotary gurus it appears I'm leaving some 27%+ of my rear wheel torque "off the table." The original car that the motor came out of had a 4.11 in it. Dialing in tire diameter the 4.38 would be about right. I can also go ahead and put a .70 4th in since I've got plenty of torque from 1500 out to about 8200 r.p.m. So I'd have a hot 3 gears around town with the good 4th (around 3280 rpm at 80, good for about 27 m.p.g and relaxed cruise). I guess I'm still a little "spooky" about which 4.38 exactly that I am putting in there.
- Pablo2
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Re: Ring and Pinion
IRS or Swingaxle? If IRS, you could consider doing a Type II conversion. If Swing, you need to find the German 4.37K 8-bolt from '66-'67 USA Transporter.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86
9.36 @ 146 in '86
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- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:50 pm
Re: Ring and Pinion
IRS. Yeah, I had considered Type II at one time.
- Pablo2
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Re: Ring and Pinion
Do it. You'll never be sorry for having spent the extra time & cash.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86
9.36 @ 146 in '86
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- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:50 pm
Re: Ring and Pinion
If I saved up over the winter I don't think affording the actual build would be bad. What is the conversion like? I'm on a 69 type 1 pan/susupension.
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Re: Ring and Pinion
i have many german 4.375 splined/keyed in optimal conditions because used in low power 34hp italian applications.
i would exhange happily with 4.12 and 3.88 because here are very scarce.
i would exhange happily with 4.12 and 3.88 because here are very scarce.
- Pablo2
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Re: Ring and Pinion
8:35G is common here, too. It is ONLY the 8:35K that is of interest (or 8:35"0").
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86
9.36 @ 146 in '86
- Henryhoehandle
- Moderator
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Re: Ring and Pinion
I have taken apart MANY upon MANY type 1 transmissions and have yet to see an "O". Mostly "G" but some "K".
- Pablo2
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- Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:37 pm
Re: Ring and Pinion
I haven't seen them either .. just threw that out there in the event they had been made.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86
9.36 @ 146 in '86
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Re: Ring and Pinion
The K and G designations you see on factory ring and pinion sets stamped in along with the tooth counts tells what type of machine was used to set up or run in the ring and pinion. the G signifies a Gleason press and the K is for a Klingenberg press. The R+P set is run in one of these machines until it reaches it's optimal quiet running point. This info is then used to determine which shims are used in the final assembly. Early units up till around '70 '71 had their set up and gear set matching numbers etched by hand into the side of the ring gear. (only tooth count numbers were stamped.) But on later model units this was not done.
examples. K833 = Klingenberg press 8 teeth on the pinion 33 teeth on the ring gear.
G833 = Gleason press 8 teeth on the pinion 33 teeth on the ring gear.
33/8=4.125 to 1.
examples. K833 = Klingenberg press 8 teeth on the pinion 33 teeth on the ring gear.
G833 = Gleason press 8 teeth on the pinion 33 teeth on the ring gear.
33/8=4.125 to 1.
- Piledriver
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Re: Ring and Pinion
woodoctr wrote:Well, I'm pulling my rotary motor conversion (1900 lb. kit car with full tank of gas) to do some other maintenance and so I thought we'd "try" a little different set-up in the transaxle. About 14 years or so ago when we had it built we went with a 3.44 (fairly new in the market at that at time) because I knew it was "thicker" and there would be less chance of killing it with the 300+ h.p. (supercharged) I was going to put in it. After doing some math with my local mechanic/friend and some of the rotary gurus it appears I'm leaving some 27%+ of my rear wheel torque "off the table." The original car that the motor came out of had a 4.11 in it. Dialing in tire diameter the 4.38 would be about right. I can also go ahead and put a .70 4th in since I've got plenty of torque from 1500 out to about 8200 r.p.m. So I'd have a hot 3 gears around town with the good 4th (around 3280 rpm at 80, good for about 27 m.p.g and relaxed cruise). I guess I'm still a little "spooky" about which 4.38 exactly that I am putting in there.
I'd be curious how the 3.44 held up with mileage wear wise, they IIRC were made less hard than the factory gears to take shock loads better, at the possible expense of wear.
If you decide to do something different I would possibly be interested in the trans or used 3.44 R&P for a turbo 2.0 or 2.5L T4 application.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.