Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

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Pablo2
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:40 pm

I'd be leery of the 4.83. It may look beefy, but the 4.57 and 4.86 are way stronger.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:56 pm

OK
normally corser teeth would be stronger but it it's then down to material, contact surface and teeth shape ,that is not better on the 4.83?

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:15 am

The 4.83 failed to live up to it's beefy appearance in off-road testing by a number of us 25 years ago.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:07 pm

always different experiences. :)
what types of failer did you experience back then?
My 091 4,57 R/P bulit by an US profiled tranny builder , did not last so long before it had wear marks.
i swapped to the 091/1 VW 4,83 that i put in afterwards , still looks good :)

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:06 am

Good question. Mike Mendeola would know the answer, as he was the one initially excited about their availability, quickly learning he had to go back to the cut & spliced 4.57. (He had cut & spliced the 4.83 head to 002 shafts.)

Because I lived in Hawaii at the time, the three boxes I sent out I never saw again .. my customer was that pissed. I had cut the 091/1 ends off, installing them with our 091 gears in 091 boxes.

On the other hand, an 091 box that I sent to Guam with the original 4.57 lasted almost 10 years before failure. That customer was pleased as punch, as all the boxes he'd received from the mainland pros had failed in a much shorter time frame. Of course, it was the most important race of his life, where he was winning the race against TOP U.S. racers .. but he didn't hold it against me. He said he knew he should have done preventative rebuild.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am

it was a weddle 4,57 R/P in that tranny

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Pablo2
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:29 am

Ah .. most of the Weddle/Albins parts are good quality, but I understand there have been some that aren't hard enough. Hard to beat the factory 4.57.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:50 pm

german quality steel !
well i was discussing tooth engagement with a fellow Vw dude, that has done slick shift on type
looking att my use parts there is wearmarks on both the gear and sliders.
making the slider go furter "in" makes the contact area greater, but then would it be a better solution after all , since the will ride on the slightly higher (not worn) area of the engagement teeth?`
or would it be hammered flat in a very short time anyway?
worried that it could pop out of gear under load then

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:36 am

We do this all the time with new gears and sliders. It isn't advisable with obviously worn parts. Sounds like some of what you're using is worn beyond what would normally go into a rebuild.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:30 pm

well maybe i was exaggerating the wear, these are gears are from fully functional "normal" wear trannys
and when i think about it i have done the same in 3 other trannys (with syncros though) without any issues
so i just "ramble on!"
and the feel good :)
done with the sliders, 3/4 was the trickiest as the thrust/stop is in the teeth's vs the slider
so had to make a coarse cut with the mill and take the remaing burrs with the micro grinder so the slider won't go to far over the gear
man this steel is hard!
also did the intermediate housing to accept 091/1-094 bearing,
the sliders seem to not go as smooth without the springs and 3 "keys" so i modified some syncros to use the 3 keys and springs for the slider.
removed the teeth ,made the internal diameter bigger so they won\t grab the gear and made some notches for oil
these will only be like spacers for the keys.

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:50 pm

I'd recommend that you get some new synchros, and don't machine them this time.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:37 am

why is that Pablo?
the box is for dragrace only,and i'm aware of the fact that the wear is significantly more without syncros
for me this is a "experminetal build" based on 90% good used parts. and my goal is to make it last ~20 passes

the information i found here and there suggest from:
syncros
to
to cut away the syncro teeth
to
no syncros att all "all out racing" trannys?

but this is mainly from other transmissions though.
like this one for example.

http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2006/20 ... _05_60.pdf

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:08 am

The beauty of slick-shift has always been its streetability over pro-shift. Everything you've done so far only enhances this goal (lightened idlers, partial removal of flanks). But if you're certain this box isn't going to be used on the street, you can leave all those tiny components out. I don't agree with all of that articles recommendations. A functioning synchro ring reduces wear considerably, especially the initial shift into 1st gear .. and you won't even know that they're there when shifting into 2nd. Shifts like butter. 20 passes is nothing, either way you go.
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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by fastback » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:46 am

ok i'll go with your advice then and put som syncros in :)
thx
but i asume no mod's att all to them? keep the teeth on an all?
i thought maybe a syncro ring would slow down the gearing, but after looking into the the pro's vs con's i asume i get a much faster gearing tranny after all ,still with syncros.
and better "longevity"

so 20 passes eiyhout syncros att all is "no problem"

BTW what is you guy's experience with the strength of the 5,43 (7/38) 091 R/P
i have a couple sets from a dieselbox.


today i finshed the intermeadiate housing. machined a slot and adde a bolt/washer to keep the bearing in place
since the larger bearing lacks surface against the nosecone the bolt and the brakcket for the shiftmechanism will act to hold the thrust forces on the bearing

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Re: Hand Packed bearings and slick shift

Post by Pablo2 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:08 pm

I think you should use something more substantial. Many years ago, Mendeola sold this bracket, which both holds the bearing from forward movement, and strengthens the bracket (which sometimes breaks). This one hasn't yet been drilled for the hold-down bolts:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1023718.jpg

Since this is a drag-only trans, you can also at least explore using this bearing, which slips right in place of the stock bearing. It will help a little in limiting forward pinion movement upon launch:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1155619.jpg

One of those bearings is just for set-up (figuring out the preload shim), while the other is for final assembly.
aka Pablo, gears, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86

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