Bus 'box in to Beetle.

[stevepugh]

I'm looking to fit a Bay 6rib box to my beetle. I don't have one currently as I'm researching the work involved.
I'm struggling to find much info on how to do this. Anyone here that has done it, how hard is it do do? I know it's bigger and the tunnel might need "massaging" slightly but will it work with my bug axles?
And is there anything else i need to think about when doing this conversion?

I have a Swing axle Beetle. It is a 1972 with a 1300 SA Gearbox currently.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The 091 sits about 3' higher mostly due to the larger ring gear, just high enough when sitting level for the nose cone to clear the rear cross-piece on the pan. That is if you use the standard conversion kit which among other things centers the transaxle in the pan (http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_t ... nd_cvs.htm) so you can use the same length axle on both sides.

There are two basic options for the shifter using this style of kit: 1) using a “dropped connector” from the "hockey stick" on the transaxle to the shift rod in the tunnel or 2) put the shifter on top of the tunnel using a sand rail type of mount which works much better. The "dropped" coupler adds a lot of "monkey motion" to the shift rod as the bottom of the coupler has an arc to it.

There is also a 10° style of mount that angles the nose of the transaxle down so that the nose sits in the tunnel and connects to the steering box. This style of conversion also centers the transaxle in the pan but does require some welding of a new mount onto the torsion tube. The only thing I have any qualms about is the angle that the engine sits at but I have never heard anyone complain about it (float bowls were my concern) so it must be so small it doesn’t make a difference.

I think both styles can be had using a soft/padded mount system to reduce noise. I can post some pictures if you need them but it is pretty straight forward using a mount kit.

Lee

[stevepugh]

VW Heritage in the UK do a converter adaptor. http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Gea ... try_GB.htm
Is this gonna work with it?
If you do have some photos of an install then that would be great. Does it work with a SA car? Someone said to me that i need to convert to IRS first??

[Ol'fogasaurus]

091's are IRS.

I run off-road as you can tell but I think that drag racers and others do do the same bus to bug swap.



This gives you an idea of where the nose cone comes in on a Type I pan. I have the shifter above the tunnel as it is a more positive, straight line connection. I have a later connector installed for any potential miss-match but adding a couple of universals would be better. A next project.



This is a little better view on the relationship of the nose cone to the body, in this case a dune buggy.



This shows the shifter box’s new location. You will have to do some fitting to get things aligned and the shift rod the proper length. There are adjuster kits available or you can make your own. I think I may have a pix or two on that.





Again, this is an off-road buggy. This was taken during a build of a body lift.



This is the transaxle pushed back slightly and the nose sitting on a piece of angle stock. You can see the stock front transaxle mount here.



This is the solid mount I was talking about.

Some related stuff for your information:

http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/pro ... ts_id=1717

http://www.mooreparts.com/store/categor ... nsmission/

http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/7022/AC311229/

10° nose down mount.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/weld-on-t ... ounts.html

There are some limitations to all these things such as some won’t work with stock sedans but will with Bajas so be careful.

Lee

[stevepugh]

What bus box would fit my SA without converting to IRS?
One of the main reasons that I want to do a bus to bug conversion is that I am wanting to fit a Subaru Engine. I am not a fan of Adaptor plates in the same way I'm not happy with wheel adaptors. RJES do a Bellhousing specifically for this conversion but a bug box doesn't have a removable Bellhousing. And I'm also led to believe that most bus boxes are stronger than stock bug ones anyway.
Will the 002 fit my Bug without converting to IRS? And will the nosecone line up with my existing shifter? I.E. through the tunnel?

I appreciate all the help here.

[justkenney]

If you decide you need the bus box for strength and convert to IRS there are always the Gene Berg adapters, BU600A for early 002 @ $325 and BU600L for late 002 @ $405.68. Berg does not make these in 091. These adapters replace the stock gear carrier and allow the use of a stock bug nose cone to leave the stock shift rod in the tunnel at the stock location.

Mounting with the shift rod above the tunnel, puts the shift rod through the back seat and also does not allow the use of the hand brake, vehicles w/out hand brakes cannot be legally street driven in most places.

[Marc]

What bus box would fit my SA without converting to IRS?...

Swingaxle Bus boxes were based upon Type I cases, so they don't have the removable bellhousing you're after.
Could be the Dave Folts kit (popular for drag racing) could suit your needs, but frankly I can't imagine why you'd want to upgrade the horsepower that much and retain the turd swingaxle handling - unless you've got a death wish
Do it right and convert the car to IRS, you'll be very glad you did.

Well-engineered adapters aren't nearly as frightening to me as swingaxle tuck when cornering at the limit. I'd use an adapter in a heartbeat if it was made right, look at just about any Porsche and you'll find bolt-on wheel spacers - what's the difference between those and a well-made wheel adapter? Heard any horror stories about Porsches with wheel spacer failures? Me either (my daily driver Bug runs Boxter rims, with spacers - 40 lugnuts in all - never had a problem, and doubt if I ever will.

[ttriebler]

What bus box would fit my SA without converting to IRS?
One of the main reasons that I want to do a bus to bug conversion is that I am wanting to fit a Subaru Engine. I am not a fan of Adaptor plates in the same way I'm not happy with wheel adaptors. RJES do a Bellhousing specifically for this conversion but a bug box doesn't have a removable Bellhousing. And I'm also led to believe that most bus boxes are stronger than stock bug ones anyway.
Will the 002 fit my Bug without converting to IRS? And will the nosecone line up with my existing shifter? I.E. through the tunnel?

I appreciate all the help here.

So why not just fit the Subaru transmission that goes with your Subaru engine? It fits real nicely into a bug. But you have to convert to IRS to use a bus box or Subie box.

[Steve Arndt]

looks like an advertisement above...

I have the 10 degree mount setup in my baja going on 12 years. Works wonderfully. It requires shorter bus into bug axles. I shortened the front mount so mine is more like a 7 degree mount.

s

[Ol'fogasaurus]

As far as the shifter sitting on top of the tunnel blocking the ebrake, that is pretty much true but... I have seen several examples of some very enterprising people making a mount for the ebrake over the shift rod and hooking up the ebrake cables. Supposedly it works unless you are using the ebrake for drifting and that may be another problem. :lol I think the 7° – 10° mount is the probably the best way for a street legal car.

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

The reason I went w/ the angle mount in my baja is the stock shifter, coupler, etc. still fits just like it should right in the tunnel. I moved the engine back about a quarter inch to avoid shortening the shift rod.

[stevepugh]

So why not just fit the Subaru transmission that goes with your Subaru engine? It fits real nicely into a bug. But you have to convert to IRS to use a bus box or Subie box.

looks like an advertisement above...

I thought that...

Either way, I have looked on your website and the cost involved in switching the box about to not have 5 reverse gears and importing all that from OZ to the UK is way too much. If I have to convert to IRS either way, then that conversion cost is inevitable whichever way. Then I can use a Bus box that I can pick up second hand for very little money, and if it breaks, do the same again. Plus RJES are UK based which makes support a little better. I would like to use the Subaru gearbox tho' as it would give me 5speed which would obviously be handy on a long distance motorway cruise.

The SA comment I take on board, but it's only ever really gonna go fast in a straight line, so I wasn't too bothered about cornering as such. But I guess i can see that i probably need to convert to IRS at some point.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

VW Heritage in the UK do a converter adaptor. http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Gea ... try_GB.htm
Is this gonna work with it?
If you do have some photos of an install then that would be great. Does it work with a SA car? Someone said to me that i need to convert to IRS first??

Steve, this mounting system looks like the one I used for the pictures I posted.

I am assuming by what you said about not worrying about cornering, is that because you are talking about straight line racing (?), is that true? If so, you might want to consider adding something like a Kaffer bar or torsion bar to support the transaxle (aka "pickle fork") mounts from sagging or tearing. I have also heard it referred to as an anti-wheel hop bar. We have some versions that are available commercially here in the states but not all are equal in strength so you have to be careful with what you buy but the concept may be usable if you can home build. This is one style you should be able to do: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=984596. There is another company (I couldn’t find the ad to post) that makes something similar and something more… ah... more that should really lock things in place. They use the parts to work against each other which makes (locks) things really solid, assuming you need that.

If you are going to get into a bigger motor, even with a 6-rib (091) then you are going to have to get into the transaxle for added a 4 spider diff but to change gear stacks also. Expect to spend some money there.

Isn’t “cause and effect” fun! One change can begat many others.

Lee

[ttriebler]

So why not just fit the Subaru transmission that goes with your Subaru engine? It fits real nicely into a bug. But you have to convert to IRS to use a bus box or Subie box.

looks like an advertisement above...

I thought that...

Either way, I have looked on your website and the cost involved in switching the box about to not have 5 reverse gears and importing all that from OZ to the UK is way too much. If I have to convert to IRS either way, then that conversion cost is inevitable whichever way. Then I can use a Bus box that I can pick up second hand for very little money, and if it breaks, do the same again. Plus RJES are UK based which makes support a little better. I would like to use the Subaru gearbox tho' as it would give me 5speed which would obviously be handy on a long distance motorway cruise.

The SA comment I take on board, but it's only ever really gonna go fast in a straight line, so I wasn't too bothered about cornering as such. But I guess i can see that i probably need to convert to IRS at some point.

Everybody seems to be able to mention RJES products (and they are good for what they are) but I can't mention Subarugears in an informative post? C'mon.
I also get on here to gain feedback from guys like you looking at projects - and the feedback you have provided about pricing and local support is valuable to me, so thankyou. I am already working on partnering up with local U.K. builders who can convert the transmissions and will have stock on hand. This way there will be local support and hopefully lower prices as well. Cheers

[stevepugh]

I'm not affiliated with RJES in any way. just the way that it looks and feels when complete is like a factory fit. Adaptors are not so factory. Teh scooby box also would look more factory and not rely on extra adaptors. Or welded Flywheels...
If there was UK support and the cost of the gear conversion was lower, then Itd be a great conversion in my eyes.
I guess the advantage of using a VW box of some kind is that a VW engine will go back in fairly easily. But then once you've bitten the bullet, there is no point looking back.
To have the Scooby box that came with the donor car would mean that it is rated for that engine, and should handle the power in a lighter car, and then some. It will also cover the aspect of a 5th gear, as getting / building 5speed VW gearboxes is also very expensive.
Using an Adaptor will push the engine further towards the back of the car and space is already a premium in a Beetle Full body.
I'm ok with chopping the inner rear wings out but I've seen some horrible chop jobs where the rear wings are cut out, and cam covers poke out the back behind the decklid. I am looking for the engine to fit under the rear and be able to shut the decklid.
If this means it cuts into the parcel tray area, then that is fine, A turbo will anyway. But externally I want it looking as stock as normal.
Do you have any ideas as to which engines you have seen in the back of a sedan with the subarugears conversion and how much space there is?