Sheet Metal Forming

General tips/tricks/tools that could be utilized on any platform.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:28 pm

There was no attempt on my part to impugn anything he, or for that matter, anyone does... never in the world would I attempt to mean to do anything like that to anyone. Ii would never call out someone in public like has been done to me a couple of times; it is embarrassing to both parties and to the site in general; that is what PMs are for, back ground discussions.

My intent was to talk in a very high level; e.g., a more general manner not about specifics but over all but I did have something more specific in mind in the second paragraph but not directed towards him.

My apology is put forth if I did offend anyone. Apparently a poor choice of words was done on my part I guess. Just another reason I have decided to be a fly on the wall.

helowrench
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by helowrench » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:03 pm

Rest easy, no worries.
I definitely did not take it badly, and as well as I know Scott, I sincerely doubt he will either.
All is well. I was just trying to guide you into his level of experience, natural ability and tooling.
(I keep discussing with a few local close friends, that we all need to find a garage to rent, and store all of our tooling.)

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SCOTTRODS » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:31 pm

Umm... I already have the Shrinker and Stretcher... And I also have a Rack and Pinion to make a Stand with, to operate "BOTH" on a rotating head, if you will... As opposed to all the Lever and rod spring configurations...

I intend to build from Air... no pattern, no RE-Pair... from a sketch or computer generated pattern maybe... but no actual model or original in the size shape I wish. I want a good scan of a Plymouth prowler to work with for a bit of inspiration if anyone knows of a computer file already available... I want to scale it down to the size I want. I think it's a little larger than my "base" will allow.

I saw nothing to be offended by at all. All so far is great discussion and education material.
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SCOTTRODS » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:35 pm

We DO need a Common Garage... Where should it be located? I'm pretty cool with such a thought.
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER

Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:27 pm

http://www.the-blueprints.com/vectordra ... h_prowler/

Due to limited ability for web access I now have I can't do much better than this... I think. (there might be some really good stuff here)

Are you going to build a buck for this or...

A rotating head shrinker/stretcher is a different idea I haven't heard of before. Sounds cool though.

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SCOTTRODS » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:15 am

Lee, I have that Drawing and a couple more that I have found on the web. If you were to take a close look at the details on the ones that you can just "pick up" off the web, there's a lot wrong with them. But I may have to use one anyway. I'd be ecstatic if I could get some flexible shape patterns done for it as well, but would still want to "shrink" the whole thing a few percent at the very least. All I really want is the Rear 1/2 of the car. I have the front figured out for shape... it won't be like the Prowler much, except the pointed concept. Plans to build a buck seem unavoidable to me trying to scale something down like this.

Yeah... On the Shrinker/Stretcher, I want to put a Swivel head on with both machines opposite each other. A Small latch of some kind to hold 'em where they need to be when in use. A Single Actuator lever rod sticking up in the middle that can be easily connected/disconnected to change heads. Even considered making them 90 Degrees out, but for clearance sake, I think 180 makes more sense. I have a Harley Front fork leg for the Swivel part... A NICE Rack and pinion set-up, that's BEEFY as hell. I little picture of how this will work, in my head... and very little time to make it happen... LOL
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER

Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001788886297

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:49 am

Since I couldn't look at any of the different CAD programs they list there nor do I have the amount of web access (gigs. I was able to do a short search during the S-bowl when things were quieter at the cell towers) that it would take to do a good full search.

There are several TV shows that have done "buck builds" including one that has reproduced a "one-off" early 30's coupe out of Titanium (?) using only the few photographs that exist of the car. It was started by one guy who got tired of it then continued by another younger guy who finished it off; shrinkers/stretchers, English wheels and a bunch of other metal forming tools were used. Just before we left for down here they started the car up sans interior. The dash was figured out by a single photo that, in the background, showed a large part of the dash (the background had gone un-noticed as I remember) which was enough to have the single gage built.

If you don't know how to get dimensions from a photo I think there are instructions on line (I can't see it myself but Corel [supposedly] has a demo that may show it). I haven't done it since I was pretty young and then it was only playing with part of the idea but not dealing with contours. It is surprising just how close (accurate) you can end up using the simple trick.

It does sound like you do need a... big garage for all of you and your toys.

Lee

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SCOTTRODS » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:49 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
It does sound like you do need a... big garage for all of you and your toys.

Lee
I think this summer I'm going to get a Quote for a 2.25 wide Garage, that's 1.5 cars deep... I have the real estate, I think. Just need to see what it's going to cost to do it. I have a Friend who used to do that stuff... Maybe he'd be able to give me a close estimate.

27' wide, by 32' deep is a close size estimate. Gonna need foundation and some driveway poured to go with it. A bunch of Spare Concrete to allow better drive way and Parking. I live on a Pie Shaped lot and the front is probably about 30 feet wide???? The back as closer to 160-180' wide... Should be enough room for the improvement. But I won't be able to store *Everyone's* tools... maybe some extras though.
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER

Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001788886297

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:13 pm

(a disjointed conversation)

If I remember correctly my garage is 27' deep and three car wide (I forget the width of each stall but each are fairly generous) even if I don't get to use the end stall... IT AIN'T BIG ENOUGH!!!!!! especially with what you guys seem to be talking about. The gathering of tools/tool storage, blast cabinets, lathe/milling machine, work tables, compressor, etc. sure can gobble up the area quickly.

31' is going to help but it is going to be smaller than you think in the end. To be honest a city block is marginal in my opinion :roll:

Being not sure if you are in the city, county or... I would go to the authorities first to get some credence to your plans: would lay it out on paper (or CAD) so you are sure you can enlarge and still stay within the restrictions allowed if you do discover it is up to snuff size wise. Tools, jigs and stored patterns can get pretty area hungry if you don't plan for it. I would plan out wiring also: you will find out that you won't have enough, they will be placed in the wrong locations and so on. Give yourself several 220 v plug-ins (by the way, there is a very good string that was done a few years ago which you could review.

One of the things I did was to put a double tube 4' fluorescent light on each side of each door about a foot off the floor; you'd be surprised just how much of a difference they make. More lighting under your vehicle than over head lights provide.

When we contracted for the house, I thought I had enough lot area but we quickly maxed out on the lot size with it and the motorhome pad.

The city would not go for an attached 4-car garage within the city limits as I remember. They even were picky about the storage shed at the end of the motorhome pad and challenged me on its position on the lot... I won that one because I new the rule on this when checking things out.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:38 pm

If I laid out my shop again I might do it differently but then I would gain and lose... a catch 22.

For instance, I might move my lathe/milling machine to the end of the garage and away from the window which allows for extra light but loss of long tube machining access that I have now (I was advised to place it in that location by a couple that knew what they were doing). It would gain me more outlets (you never can have enough at any single location) and overhead lighting but at the same time I would lose a lot of storage cabinets at the same time.

Also it would mean relocating a lot of other things like drill press and blast cabinet and scrap metal storage. Cause and effect can be very difficult to figure out until every thing is in place and used there.

Do some big time planning before you get too deep into this

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SCOTTRODS » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:12 am

You make some very good points, Lee. Just last week I had my city councilman for my district over to discuss some other issues I'm having with the Code officer in my neighborhood... He was on the city planning commission (the guys that decide whether you *can or *Can't*)for years before running for His council seat. He actually said that it should be NO PROBLEM to put a 2 car garage in my lot as I suggested. He's a Vintage Car nut as well...

To comment on your electrical suggestions... I don't think they'll let me put more than a 200 amp box in a residential building... That part I have questions about still... but I believe that's code around here. I may be able to get a Variance for a little more, but I have to have at least that for the Machines I plan on having there. I'm already powder coating in my garage, I have a 60 amp for the oven (4'x4'x6'), and another 40 amp to run my compressor right now. (3) 120 outlets on a single 20 amp circuit, and 2 on 15 amp circuits. There's never enough outlets, so I also installed Power strips on two benches... both 4 footers with 6 outlets each. I'm already maxed out and then some on electrical in the attached garage. But to say the least, I have already been considering a lot of the things that many might forget.

The biggest issue I'm gonna have is the height of the building. I don't know if they'll let me go taller than the existing house. I'd like to have more head room as well. (Can you say "Lift"?) But I think that'll be another limitation On my wishes. I'll post more info if this goes into motion.
I have found them completely missing more than once. - PILEDRIVER

Some pics of My Powder Coating work
http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg6/terrellster/
My Facebook Page for Powder Coating
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001788886297

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:23 pm

It is funny how the code varies around the nation and even state and county wise. I have seen bigger than a single 200 amp in a house, even one in the house and one in the garage but I think you would have to lobby hard for it.

My work bench area has a four pack of outlets at each end including two 20 amp plugs on one end and that isn't usually enough when I get active. The outside wall is almost bereft if outlets and the sprinkler system uses one of them. Doing it again I would have a 220 amp on each wall not including the one for the compressor; I would also have them strategically located (if possible as you never know when or where one needs it until it happens).

We have about the only single level house in the development we live in and I think there are only a couple in the other two developments and none in the third development close by. I was not thinking about a lift until it was too late to have the roof/ceiling rafters modified to allow for the additional needed height. Plan a head for sure.

Lee

SuperRSi
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Re: Sheet Metal Forming

Post by SuperRSi » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:48 pm

Explosive forming is always interesting. We do it here in Santa Fe. You can print the circles from bubble wrap on stainless with the shock waves. Not too good for making parts though...

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