Welding Myth? - Flux Core w/Argon?

General tips/tricks/tools that could be utilized on any platform.

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:07 am

Gary...

Thanks for the replies.

Tim

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david58
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Post by david58 » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:34 pm

This is a good discussion. At least to me anyways, I never thought about combining the to two flux wire with gas, which just might be a good choice. Different points of view doesn’t matter what matters is facts. The facts I see is neither are wrong only different points of view. So no one should get offended, we are all here to learn and share what we know or what we heard. I asked in another thread about using .035 liners with a .023 tip no one said nothing negative. I was fixing to go buy and put a .023 liner in my welder I didn’t need. Thanks to the responses here I only bought the tips I needed for the wire. As I thought the liner guides the wire and the tip is what is important.
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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:41 pm

We just swap tips also..

I have head confirmation from some structural welders that if it is supposed to give a stronger weld (shield and flux)

T.

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type11969
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Post by type11969 » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:11 am

Our welder who builds our offshore buoys and many other offshore structures only uses dual shield when welding structural pieces together. I doubt he would do it if it was wasteful or unecessary.

-Chris

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Post by RCH » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:08 am

type11969 wrote:Our welder who builds our offshore buoys and many other offshore structures only uses dual shield when welding structural pieces together. I doubt he would do it if it was wasteful or unecessary.

-Chris
Are these welds made in the field? I would assume so... being that your talking large offshore structures, or on a ship.

When ever we do structural steel in the field, we just use a big gas powered ARC welder. In the Fabshop Tig it. The reason we dont Tig in the field is the argon tends to pool on the ground instead of around the weld. I can see running a flux core with a shield gas if a typical ARC process isnt suitable.

ofcourse I dont usually deal with fancy alloys either. Plain old carbon steel or 304 stainless is usually good enough for piping and buildings.

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type11969
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Post by type11969 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:19 pm

Nope, not in the field, in his shop. The amount of welding required renders TIG or stick impractical.

redbluebug
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Post by redbluebug » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:52 pm

Two kinds of flux cored wire are available. Outershield flux core wire is made for use with shielding gases, ie co2, 75%argon25%co2, even higher percentages of argon can be used, if you are spray welding.

The other flux cored wire is Innershield, no gas required.

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Post by glenfriesen » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:33 pm

If I can throw my two bits in... I am a pro welder with 11 years experiance and I will say this, there are basicly 2 types of wire solid and tubular (flux cored, metal cored, etc). Within tubular wire there are self sheilded and dual shield. Dual shield uses a shielding gas and flux while self shielded only flux. Dual shield is usualy 0.45 or larger and used huge power, 26-30 volts and 200-300 amps. Not something that you average car guy would use. Dual shield, because of the required shielding gas is not suitable for use outside.
Self shielded wire is more suited to out door use because it is usualy very similar to stick electrodes. (7018, 6010, 6011, etc) Which is why alot of pros use it for portable work. The confusing part is some of the very low budget garage MIG welding machines do not have a gas solenoid and therefore require the use of self sheilded.
In my very humble opinion your best bet is to use 0.35 solid wire with a CO2 Argon mix. (75-85% CO2, 25-15% argon) Prax-Air has a nice gas called MIG mix gold which works awesome it has an additional gas added which helps with wetting the bead out better. You can turn it down (18 volts) and weld gauge material, or crank it to 30 volts and run in a 1/4" fillet on 1/2" or 3/4" plate. This is what we use in our shop almost exclusively. You can use this gas with ER70S6 wire for mild steel or ER80S6 or even ER90S6 wire for welding on higher strength alloy steels. Best bang for your buck. One roll of wire, one bottle of gas and a huge range of material you can weld, from patching a fender to building a trailer.
I know most of this was covered earlier in this post but I just wanted to chime in with what I could

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:52 am

clarification.. I was always coached weekenders should stick with .023

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Post by glenfriesen » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:20 pm

0.023 is fine for smaller lighter stuff. Our shop uses 0.035 almost exclusively with the exception of some 0.045 308 and 316 stainless steel dual shield flux core. The absolute lightest material we work with is 16 ga and 0.035 is pretty big for that. You usualy end up with a lot of warpage and mess. But on the other hand 0.035 doesn't seem to pile up in the rollers as often as smaller wire. That comes down to the length of you lead (gun) and the type of rollers and liner you are using. So yeah, 0.023 is probably the stuff to use on light gauge material, like what you would find on a VW. (1/4" material is pretty much the limit for this size of wire) IMHO. :)

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:10 am

Thanks...

Is there a specific gas mix and wire that average folks should be using on the .023?

I know you went through details above.. just want to ask for a single answer.. wire and gas.

Tim

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Post by glenfriesen » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 pm

ER70S6 wire is a good all around wire, 70,000 psi tensile strength and good ductility, similar to the industy standard 7018 SMAW (stick) electrode. As far as gas goes CO2 with 10-25% argon should do the trick. Your best bet is to find a good supplier of welding products and ask what they recomend. Praxair's Mig Mix Gold is 10% argon and 90% CO2 and like I said before it welds great in a wide variety of applications. One thing to watch is argon is more expensive then CO2, so in gasses with higher argon content the cost of a bottle goes up.

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Chris4747
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Re: Welding Myth? - Flux Core w/Argon?

Post by Chris4747 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:59 pm

they make iether flux-core gassless wire or flux-core that is run with argon/carbondioxide 75/25
i have been a welder for 20 some odd years and am cert by ABS ,and navy standard the gassless wire is what you get when you buy the little Hobart mig (what i call the garauge welder) The TM-770 gas flux-core wire is used mainly in industrial settings it carries a higher tencil strength .If you have any welding exp but have not used TM-770 wire then let me tell you this wire does not run like the normal mig hard wire manipulation of the puddle is strictly a bad idea .The TM770 actualy runs more like a 7018 as far as the puttle runs Chris
I also agree with glenn on the sheilding gass but i prefer 75/25 mixture myself
Prax air will have all you need but they do not sell bottles any longer all bottles are now rented on a yearly basis
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